Dams Raid Flypast, May 2008

Fully agree thats a great video. Shows how hard the pilots work and the slightly delayed response of the aircraft to the controls. Flying lower, at night while under fire is amazing. Must be a real privilage to be in the BBMF.

Steve

Fantastic vid.. thankyou!

Excuse me dragging up this somewhat zombified thread, but I’ve just found some great on-board footage of the Derwent flypasts taken from the Flight Eng’s position in the Lanc. Exhilarating stuff even under modern conditions, it makes you realise what a great challenge the flying was under wartime conditions when they were flying even lower, let alone being under fire on the raid itself.

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=HIEg27PNL5U&feature=related

Hi Ken,

Thanks for the confirmation. I think 4 Tornadoes left Lossiemouth, so maybe they had two airborne researves!

Thanks again,

Iain.

Hi all,

The BBC report said that two Tornadoes would fly over the dam with the Lancaster, but they didn’t cover this – did it happen?

I was at Lossiemouth on Friday, and 3 617 Tornadoes certainly left to take part in a flypast somewhere!

Were the Tornadoes seen over the Derwent?

Regards,

Iain.

Yes,and pictures of the 2 Tornadoes and the Lanc were shown on various networks.

And as I was there,I can confirm that this took place.

Ken.

Tornadoes at Derwent?

Hi all,

The BBC report said that two Tornadoes would fly over the dam with the Lancaster, but they didn’t cover this – did it happen?

I was at Lossiemouth on Friday, and 3 617 Tornadoes certainly left to take part in a flypast somewhere!

Were the Tornadoes seen over the Derwent?

Regards,

Iain.

Saw the Dak on Sunday (18th) came in low and slow over the Gisburn carboot sale (Lancs/Yorks border) at about 10.00 – Saw it coming in from a distance and recognised the profile 🙂 but was surprised to see it apparently reduce altitude as it approached – Those pilot’s obviously can’t resist a crowd 😀

Was much appreciated and everyone stopped what they were doing to watch – anyone fill me in on where it had been / was going?

Down for display at Blackpool on the 18th.

http://www.bbmf.co.uk/may08.html

The Dakota was displaying at Blackpool, North Weald and Rickmansworth.

TJ

I’m afraid I don’t recognize the country you appearently live in.

I’m not making a slight towards the RAF or 617 Squadron, rather, it’s a legitimate question.

So by your estimation everybody’s cool with the RAF policies in WWII, Bomber Harris and the whole lot? 😎
I’m sure TVOC will be glad to hear of their immenent donations from the “former” peace groups.:D

Our bombing policies were no different to anybody else,the so called ‘precision bombing’ by our allies was only possible in good weather (rare sometimes in europe !),but also with their large formations and only the lead bombardiers aiming there would always be a fair ‘spread’ of bomb hits.
As we have discussed before some of the targetting perhaps was odd,but we do not know how much was political and left Harris carrying the can post war (wink..no smileys on this pc !)

Armchair historians are ok, so long as they look at the whole picture (but by the nature of things they/we often don’t). True, it is right to remember the civilian deaths and those suffered by the captive PoW’s who were drowned as a result of the Raid. In a comparable scenario today (if that were possible), probably the Raid would never have got political or legal sanction. neither would Hamburg or Dresden, but that’s another matter. They happened, and become part of an awful warning from history that we are right to remember.
On the other hand, in 1943 we had suffered a pretty straight run of defeats and set-backs, and the Dams raid was brilliantly conceived and executed with absolute heroism by the young British and Commonwealth crews. Moreover, it helped persuade the Americans that the Brits had the expertise and still had the will to carry out dramatic strikes in the heart of enemy territory. That strengthened the hand of those who proposed “Europe First” as a strategic priority over the Pacific and Japan. If it had been the other way round, how many more might have died on all sides in Europe…
So long live the BBMF, and it’s right to remember all aspects of what happened when we see them at work. [tuppence worth had:rolleyes: ]

Ofcourse none of the above raids would get political sanction today, mainly because we are not at war.

In 1943 we had been bombed to ******* , half starved, and lived in fear for our families and our liberty, ask any man in the street whether we should bomb Germany, or else drop some more leaflets, I think the answer would be the former; don’t forget Churchill wanted to gas them.

Saw the Dak on Sunday (18th) came in low and slow over the Gisburn carboot sale (Lancs/Yorks border) at about 10.00 – Saw it coming in from a distance and recognised the profile 🙂 but was surprised to see it apparently reduce altitude as it approached – Those pilot’s obviously can’t resist a crowd 😀

Was much appreciated and everyone stopped what they were doing to watch – anyone fill me in on where it had been / was going?

I don’t recognise the country that you seem to think this is, J Boyle. 😎

I’m afraid I don’t recognize the country you appearently live in.

I’m not making a slight towards the RAF or 617 Squadron, rather, it’s a legitimate question.

So by your estimation everybody’s cool with the RAF policies in WWII, Bomber Harris and the whole lot? 😎
I’m sure TVOC will be glad to hear of their immenent donations from the “former” peace groups.:D

It must have been something to have been there.

Any negative feedback from the politically-correct/anti-military elements of the public or media?
After all, Germany is now an EU partner….
(I can’t image the USAF having a a flypast to recall Polesti or (heaven forbid) Hiroshima.)

LMFAO, you can’t be serious?
The impact of those raids was negligable compared to the area bombing, was surprised it got any coverage in Germany at all.

I have a couple of questions relating to this fantastic day…
Les Munro was quoted as being ‘the last surviving pilot from that mission’ when he according to Guy Gibson was en route he was’hit by flak…and his aircraft was so badly damaged that he was forced to return to base.’ He was detailed to fly in a group of 5 on a diversionary raid to the Sorpe dam to draw attention from the other raiding parties.
My question is, and I do not want to take any respect or admiration from Mr Munro because he obviously is made from stuff some of us can only dream of;are there any surviving airmen alive from that 617 squadron who were actually successful in completing the mission.
Secondly as a newbie to this site does anybody know if it is possible that there will ever be more than 2 airworthy Lancasters ie would a static display be restored or are we only ever going to see ‘city of Lincoln’ gracing our skies?
Edit:Just found Dambusters.org which seems to have up to date news on the crews

I was not shooting at you kesha;)
There were (are) always innocent casualties in war and I always feel upset about the Russian prisoners .
I was just having a poke at revisionist history and axe grinding in general

100% agreed.

😉

Don`t behead the messenger… 😎

I assume it`s just a matter of perspective. The Brits concentrate on the brilliant attack, the Germans on it`s results.

The focus of this article was on the civilian casualties, and I think each side has the right to moan about their dead.

kesha

I was not shooting at you kesha;)
There were (are) always innocent casualties in war and I always feel upset about the Russian prisoners .
I was just having a poke at revisionist history and axe grinding in general

It was a war of attrition,every major raid had a deep impact
on the German Industrial capability,even the secondary effect of reinforcing the Dams anti Aircraft protection was part of the attrition.’As soon as October’ means that a major power generation facility was out of action for 1/12th
of WW2 and much valuable material was used up during the repair.Beware armchair historians!!

Don`t behead the messenger… 😎

I assume it`s just a matter of perspective. The Brits concentrate on the brilliant attack, the Germans on it`s results.

The focus of this article was on the civilian casualties, and I think each side has the right to moan about their dead.

Kesha

Armchair historians are ok, so long as they look at the whole picture (but by the nature of things they/we often don’t). True, it is right to remember the civilian deaths and those suffered by the captive PoW’s who were drowned as a result of the Raid. In a comparable scenario today (if that were possible), probably the Raid would never have got political or legal sanction. neither would Hamburg or Dresden, but that’s another matter. They happened, and become part of an awful warning from history that we are right to remember.
On the other hand, in 1943 we had suffered a pretty straight run of defeats and set-backs, and the Dams raid was brilliantly conceived and executed with absolute heroism by the young British and Commonwealth crews. Moreover, it helped persuade the Americans that the Brits had the expertise and still had the will to carry out dramatic strikes in the heart of enemy territory. That strengthened the hand of those who proposed “Europe First” as a strategic priority over the Pacific and Japan. If it had been the other way round, how many more might have died on all sides in Europe…
So long live the BBMF, and it’s right to remember all aspects of what happened when we see them at work. [tuppence worth had:rolleyes: ]

If that’s youre two penn’orth then it was worth it, very well put and well thought out. I don’t think I’m alone in agreeing with everything you said.

There was a superb picture of the Lanc over the dam in the Daily Mail on Saturday.

Bri:)

Armchair historians are ok, so long as they look at the whole picture (but by the nature of things they/we often don’t). True, it is right to remember the civilian deaths and those suffered by the captive PoW’s who were drowned as a result of the Raid. In a comparable scenario today (if that were possible), probably the Raid would never have got political or legal sanction. neither would Hamburg or Dresden, but that’s another matter. They happened, and become part of an awful warning from history that we are right to remember.
On the other hand, in 1943 we had suffered a pretty straight run of defeats and set-backs, and the Dams raid was brilliantly conceived and executed with absolute heroism by the young British and Commonwealth crews. Moreover, it helped persuade the Americans that the Brits had the expertise and still had the will to carry out dramatic strikes in the heart of enemy territory. That strengthened the hand of those who proposed “Europe First” as a strategic priority over the Pacific and Japan. If it had been the other way round, how many more might have died on all sides in Europe…
So long live the BBMF, and it’s right to remember all aspects of what happened when we see them at work. [tuppence worth had:rolleyes: ]

Na, just a short online article here, about the Möhnetalsperre:
http://www.geo.de/GEO/kultur/geschichte/57114.html?t=print
and a copy here on Spiegel:
http://einestages.spiegel.de/static/authoralbumbackground/1980/_ich_kann_die_hilfeschreie_noch_heute_hoeren.html

The text says it was a “catastrophe”, caused by the RAF bombings, which killed about 1.500, most of them Russian women. It further points out that the attack had no great effects on the Ruhr arms industry, and that the Möhnetalsperre was rebuild as soon as October 1943.

Kesha

It was a war of attrition,every major raid had a deep impact
on the German Industrial capability,even the secondary effect of reinforcing the Dams anti Aircraft protection was part of the attrition.’As soon as October’ means that a major power generation facility was out of action for 1/12th
of WW2 and much valuable material was used up during the repair.Beware armchair historians!!