Dangerous instruments again (yes I know)

depends if you like mine old chap!!

I do faces for most instruments and bezels…..btw I am not a business or touting for trade….I just recognised a problem in my collection and solutionised!!!!:D

Tony,

Any samples? I like it when problems are being solved.

Cees:)

Problem is that they pose little danger until you disturb the faces. What do you do with the faces once you have removed them?

Bruce

Well, it seems like there are some developments going on over here where people are being harrassed for possession of certain instruments. Cees

Problem is that they pose little danger until you disturb the faces.

Bruce

In the Netherlands, at the moment some civil servant pose much danger to such instruments! If you have a few instruments at a shelf there is not much danger, but if you have a complete panel and you show it in a museum or at a show you can have real problems. The instruments containing radioactive material will be confiscated and proper stored at your expense:mad:

Regards,

Mathieu.

I have just surveyed all of my instruments and switches, both in the Hunter, in my Vulcan panels collection and in storage. Some surprising results ….

I’m in the process of working out the dose rates based on the count rate, but I know the hunter is well below the required limit.

For info, have a looksee here…. look under the heading ‘Vintage Aircraft Restoration

I was quite sceptical about the issues until I started looking into this a bit further, and especially since I surveyed my kit. I didn’t want to get caught out if the ‘man from the quango’ suddenly turned up on my doorstep.

What’s the going rate for a gieger counter??

Roger Smith.

That article is dated 2002 though, so they have been dragging their heels somewhat. I have a feeling though that things may start to kick off ‘soon’.

I’ve just checked and my first recorded communication on this topic came from BAPC in October 2001. Since then some organisations and individuals have insisted that it’s not an issue; whilst others have acted and taken the recognised appropriate steps.

The situation is only going to become more regulated, not less. Judging by the earlier posts it’s not just a British issue; “Times they’re changing!”

I think the main ‘issue’ may be events like Cockpitfest, particularly if a member of the public is allowed to sit in a cockpit or be close to a display that has lots of early and unchecked instruments, though I’d say that for such a brief exposure, any dose will be negligable. But the problem is that if one of the quango’s sees it as another ‘something’ to regulate and gain extra feathers in their cap, it will come at a price to all of us. You can guarantee that once they know you have one or many radioactive items, you will either have to pay to be registered, carry out complex and onerous risk assesments or pay to have a professional body to carry it out for you, or pay to have the items disposed of.

I also think some of the museums are overly cautious (scared) and as a consequence ban all public access to cockpits ‘just in case’.

It might be worth clarifying what’s what re instruments.
ie was the paint with the radioactivity only used up to a certain time, is infra-red paint different etc.
Or for all are sakes best not to keep raising it on forums?:confused:

That Dalgety Bay report is interesting particularly the analysis which on first read does not find a link between the radium from the destroyed instruments, and skin cancer….

Bruce

The link to the HSE site is worrying – next step will be to criminalise it, and they’ll find them all in landfill – nice and safe then!

That article is dated 2002 though, so they have been dragging their heels somewhat. I have a feeling though that things may start to kick off ‘soon’.

Talking of landfill, that’s probably safer than what the MOD did at Dalgety Bay north of Edinburgh…. read all about it here

The link to the HSE site is worrying – next step will be to criminalise it, and they’ll find them all in landfill – nice and safe then!

Bruce

I bought a professional one and check my outgoing instruments.

XF940 – There are two types of Horizon Mk 1 – One ‘is’ and one ‘isnt’ as it were. I have seen examples of both – likewise 6A/1299 RPM’s, Boost gauges and so on…..

Bruce

Anyone know why there isn’t a ban on collecting old wrist watches? They suffer the same problems and are worn next to the skin http://www.trusted-forwarder.org/elgin/help/luminous_dials.html even some AFV’s used in the gulf war used by Iraq had luminous dials. Interesting to read about the ‘Radium Girls’ and how they had to fight for justice. Interesting to also read about a company getting fined some years back in the UK for having old BT Luminous Trimphone dials in a skip and they were Tritium not radium which i believe is safer.

I’ve found with a DRSB 01 surveymetre that from about 2 feet away and in a detolf cabinet I only get the background number of clicks, going with the information I posted in the link and my own surveying of my instruments I’m not concerned, the main thing in my eyes is to be aware that some instruments are radioactive, the dust can be dangerous and to therefore take the necessary precautions to prevent unecessary exposure to it.

The one I got a Xmas was an ex civil defense – going for ca. 70. Only issue is that they are only good for beta and gamma – to get alpha – you need to double this.

CDV 700 is the number

You have to be careful as these are the corrcet ones for what we are talking about. There are some cheaper detectors – which are for post apocylpse large amounts of rad – and useless for small scale.

Can you add a lead crystal front glass and mask the emmission ?

see under R on this page and then under: Radioaktivität Leuchtmasse bei Geräten Strahlung

for a detailed survey of german instruments.

http://www.cockpitinstrumente.de/archiv/Dokumente/web/new%20site/frames2/Dokumente.htm

…even some AFV’s used in the gulf war used by Iraq had luminous dials.

I think the quantity of DU shells used in the Gulf War was probably more of an issue than the odd luminous dial 😀

Anyone know why there isn’t a ban on collecting old wrist watches?

I was told by a knowledgable gent a long time ago that it dates back to the early 1960s when the first tentative H+S style regs were drafted.

A consultative document was circulated amongst the industries likely to be using/handling and storing radio-active compounds, etc.

The watch and clock industry still made luminous time-pieces and so lobbied for an exemption which was duly granted. Presumably, the aircraft instrument industry, having already moved on to other forms of cockpit illumination, did not bother to lobby and so aircraft instruments were lumped in with all the other potential hazards.

So, yes, you can collect all the luminous time-pieces you want including, I believe, aircraft clocks because they’re clocks not aircraft instruments (:rolleyes:) without any of the malarkey that surrounds luminous gauges.

That’s my understanding of it, based on said gentleman’s description of events.