Danish cartoons – attack on Islam or free speech?

How exactly are blasphemy and falsifying history related or even remotely similar?

The common factor is Hate…blasphemy spreads hate among those negativly affected…same goes for Holocaust…as a jew I’m sure you’ll get very emotional if someone comes on your face and denies holocaust.

Lets not forget it is this Hate that’s the Feul of Extremists on both sides.

Regardless of how silly it is to deny the holocaust, to make it a crime to voice that opinion flies in the face of the claims that these countries have true freedom of expression.

It is only made illegal because ardent supporters of the regimes that committed those crimes still exist and try to deny that a crime took place, thereby abusing the right of free speech. The holocaust example is not good because it ties too closely with the Western/Eastern rift and religious differences Christians, Jews and Muslims. I think a comparable example that is much less value laden is the example China/South-East Asia v Japan.

IN the US the borderline is between whether or not free speech is used to incite to violence:
I hate cabbage > free speech > legal
Cut up all cabbages > hate speech > illegal
(substitute your own least favorite veggies or people)

Regardless of how silly it is to deny the holocaust, to make it a crime to voice that opinion flies in the face of the claims that these countries have true freedom of expression.

The list of European countries in which it is a crime to deny the holocaust is surprisingly long :

* Austria
* Belgium
* Czech Republic
* France
* Germany
* Israel
* Lithuania
* Poland
* Slovakia
* Switzerland

Would you like me to remind you what the British press did when Prince Harry wore the swastika while dressing up as a German during some highschool party of his?

How exactly are blasphemy and falsifying history related or even remotely similar?

Or, to put it in the form of a question, suppose you were chinese, wouldn’t like to see the law of Japan say that it is illegal to deny that Imperial Japan committed attrocities in Manchuria (China), Korea and other occupied areas during WW2, including medical experiments and experiments with biological and chemical weapons on civilian population. Bet you that you go to jail in China if you say in Japan didn’t do this.

Don’t get me wrong, insulting someone’s religious beliefs is not a smart thing to do, and also not a considerate thing. But it is not illegal in the countries in question and generally speaking the law of a country reflects the values held by that society. If you don’t like the law, you can always go into politics and make a difference.

The list of European countries in which it is a crime to deny the holocaust is surprisingly long :

* Austria
* Belgium
* Czech Republic
* France
* Germany
* Israel
* Lithuania
* Poland
* Slovakia
* Switzerland

I feel shame that Finland isent on this list. We were facist allyes during the war but we have pretty well skipped the remorse part and blamed russians and hide behind Stalins own misschieves to justificate our claims…

Hope they would remember it wasent just jews that were killed but the gypsyes, gays, loonies, retardeds and most importantly, all left wingers…wonder have anybody ever counted how much NAZIS killed leftist during the their reing?

Newspapers in Iran and Pakistan are full of racist slur of far greater magnitude (about Judaism, Buddhism, Jainism, Christianity, Israel, India, etc..)

And India is the holiest nation which has the cleanest record against it’s minorities.

Back to the topic..

The Reaction apart from threats and violence sounds reasonable…Freedom of Speech and Expression goes both ways 😉

SOC Islam does not needs to justify anything, Go do plenty of research on it and you will get your answers.

And why their response is always “lets blow something up or kidnap it”.

Extremists give extreme response, Moderates give moderate response, and Media, specially western media usually likes to pick up the extreme response so then people like you are ‘educated’ and hard-coded (brainwashed i.e.) that lets blow something up is the only response.

The majority of the people who are complaining about these cartoons are the same scum who spew anti-western hate on a regular basis.

And when you do the same, it makes you no different from that “Scum”

Some Western countries it seems do all the hard-work in spreading hate, recruiting and creating Jihadists…and then whine about it when these same people kinda hit back at you.

Would you like me to remind you what the British press did when Prince Harry wore the swastika while dressing up as a German during some highschool party of his?

There You Go 😀

Has the media picked the moderate response? No..when say 500 people come out to protest…out of 5 million or so living in a city…it shows you who is protesting and in what manner..but obivously the “All-true-totally-correct” media only picks up those 500 people…not not the rest of the people…and if one applies some common sense you can think of this yourself.

Is the freedom to insult other people’s faith just because you can something to be proud of? or does it really take a ‘Holocaust’ to gain respect?
Why is there a legislation against imagery that hurts the feelings of all those barely 15 million Jews of the world? Since, when these very papers publish something that offends the 1 billion Muslims of the world, it’s conveniently cited as ‘freedom of expression and that of your press’.
Surely more suitable candidates for such pictures would have been Bin Laden, Abu Musab Zarqawi or Al-Zwahiri instead of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). But if EU countries really want to play into the hands of Islamic extremists well then who are we to stop them

thats couse the world isent perfect

well stupid thing to say, but thats the way. Western media has taken lot of noble words and expressions to determen our societyes but in reality we are far fethced from those…

But then again, its just pictures, no one is gaining ‘morale’ superiority over this matter by threathening peoples lives. So there I agree whit you SOC These sort of things should flame things on discussion boards, propaply couse severe exhange of editorial words, but demonstrations and armed threats of killing people? in wery ironical way this whole mess presents us west and the muslim world in its worst…hope no one is going to get killed over some pictures, drawings, couse if it happens, i shall end all my sympaties to muslim freedom fighters rebelling the west i myself generally dislike…to some point.

…Gollevainen has now threathen to cut down his morale suport to muslim world, we shall waits its implicts on the middle east…

propaply guite silly boasting on my behalv, but then again no one can never say i didnt do my part…

The list of European countries in which it is a crime to deny the holocaust is surprisingly long :

* Austria
* Belgium
* Czech Republic
* France
* Germany
* Israel
* Lithuania
* Poland
* Slovakia
* Switzerland

Would you like me to remind you what the British press did when Prince Harry wore the swastika while dressing up as a German during some highschool party of his?

Why is there a legislation against imagery that hurts the feelings of all those barely 15 million Jews of the world?

There is? Where?

I think you guys are missing the point. Ok, people got offended. We get that. But look at the reaction-right to violence. Look at what made the artist come up with this stuff. There’s a problem there, and I think there’s a large number of people (worldwide, that’s not a jab at the forum) that realize that. The real people who we should be concerned about here are those who just treat this as a basic “oh no someone got offended” PC issue.

Is the freedom to insult other people’s faith just because you can something to be proud of? or does it really take a ‘Holocaust’ to gain respect?
Why is there a legislation against imagery that hurts the feelings of all those barely 15 million Jews of the world? Since, when these very papers publish something that offends the 1 billion Muslims of the world, it’s conveniently cited as ‘freedom of expression and that of your press’.
Surely more suitable candidates for such pictures would have been Bin Laden, Abu Musab Zarqawi or Al-Zwahiri instead of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH). But if EU countries really want to play into the hands of Islamic extremists well then who are we to stop them.

as they are in fact pretty damn accurate representations

I wouldnt but it that way. You see it would be same as drawing jews as they were presented in NAZI propaganda, whit their big noses and intrigue eyes…imagine what it will couse if someone would drawn caricatures like those whit adding somethin related to worldwide conspiracy stuff into it.
Media should have some sort of taste and maturiry, as the freedom of speach isen’t mented to allow offense everybody. Its not Medias task to do, but to tell the truth whatever it is or someone wants it to be, but not to deliberatly offend somebody.

I would love to see the opinions of the actual artist of these pics, not just the publishers…and for a change, how the rigthwing extermists, neo-nazis react to this sort of treassure to their beleives…Hope things dont end up permanetly wrong….

Personally I have no problems with the images presented there. You know what? I wouldn’t even classify most of them as caricatures, as they are in fact pretty damn accurate representations. The answer to this? If you’re offended, don’t buy that newspaper anymore. Nobody is forcing these images on anyone else.

Instead of threatening violence (who didn’t see that coming?), Islam needs to take this opportunity to really reflect on it’s image and why images like this appear.

And why their response is always “lets blow something up or kidnap it”.

ahem, try the ice on the stick untill it brakes, that’s my motto and I will defend anybodys rigth to do it also. Thougth no one should lift his hand up in the air in the danmark and say: ” Hey sorry I didnt know its going to couse a fuzz…” I think there has been some sort of purpose of that who ever published/drew those pics. And propaply it wasent the smartest thing a drawer could came up whit, I mean, caricatures should be funny, and those werent, they practically woved for attention and scandal…well they certainly have it now…Its nice to see that Rasmussen taking a bit of crawling for once

Western papers have a duty to post such cartoons, all religion needs to be scrutinized and shown how truly flawed it is. The majority of the people who are complaining about these cartoons are the same scum who spew anti-western hate on a regular basis.

I believe in the right of free speech.
But that also meens I have to aspect and listen to different arguments, a other point of view and loud criticism. Before I get too mad or a diccusion gets too hot, I ignore comments and end the diccusion.

I was a bad idea of other european press printing all Danish cartoons in their lastest issues. A small cartoon suited me to form my own opinion. Some newspapers showed even new cartoons, like extinguising burning oil with water.
The muslim people who are on the streets should learn that violence like kidnapping tourists, workers or other people and suicide bombs the wrong answer is to this situation. I enjoy their right of free speech in peacefully and repectfully way.
We Westerns have still learn and respect more of the middle east religion and culture as well the people in middle east have to learn and respect our culture, democracy and free press.
So both sides have to calm down!

You see, the reason I don’t care, has partly to do with the fact that this is the army forum and threads about pointless debates like this do not belong here.

[color=red]Totally correct, this is more of a General Discussion topic, and I’ll move it over there right now. Feel free to debate this issue everyone, just be mindful of what you say, or perhaps more to the point, how you say it. Everyone’s opinion is valid, but keep the rules of the Code of Conduct in mind when you share your opinion here.[/color]

Ink! Couldn’t agree more! (Though I’m “air force” 😉 )
Best regards

I’m neither a muslim nor am I Danish… And so; I don’t care! I really don’t give a damn. Not even a little bit. Unless the Saudis are about to send an army to destroy those Danish infedels or the Danes are about to start behaving like Vikings by sending an army to the Middle East.

You see, the reason I don’t care, has partly to do with the fact that this is the army forum and threads about pointless debates like this do not belong here.

I wonder what would happen if there was a remake of Life of Brian with Mohammed. WW3? :dev2: