Daz FINALLY gets his scanner going!!!

Originally posted by PerfectPic Co.
folks – one from me to add to the PL983 discusssions (previously posted but why not enjoy again)
Pete Kinsey in PL983 o/h Goudhurst Kent June 2000

Has to be one of my favourite pics of PL983! 🙂

Had an e-mail the other day from John Romain (hope he doesn’t mind me posting this!) to say the PL983 is now in the hands of Historic Flying – and will be restored in the future 🙂

Joe,

35mins?

Here is a ‘couple of frames on’ of the several MOVING shots in that sequence.

It is in that process of ‘progressing’ under its own power from the restoration hanger area to the take off position.

I call that taxiing. :rolleyes:

Perhaps the local airfield geography is clearer in this shot?

Mark

folks – one from me to add to the PL983 discusssions (previously posted but why not enjoy again)
Pete Kinsey in PL983 o/h Goudhurst Kent June 2000

OK I will settle for the half-hour argument.

Not that any of this really matters, I to was also there that day as I played a part (albeit small) in the restoration of the aircraft.

The position of the aircraft on your first photo is the compass base / engine run pan at East Midlands, not the taxiway. This means it was either undergoing an engine run or positioned for photos. I cannot remember now. Prior to posting I went up to the hangar to check with the chap who was in charge of restoring the aircraft (who is still restoring Spitfires) to show him the picture and make sure I had my facts right.

Regarding the windscreen, whilst you did not say it wasn’t the personal choice of Roland’s, you implied it was replaced at the behest of he CAA which was not the case on this particular aircraft. 🙂

Joe,

Dammit I am going to be pedantic! 🙂

Do you want the five minute argument or the full half hour?

I was at East Midlands that day by invitation. A crowd of us pushed the aircraft out of the Trent Aero hanger. As with all first flights , nervous engineers were fussing around doing last minute things whilst nonchalant pilots looked on and photogs scanned for the best angle and the condition of the sun.

After some general waiting around and the usual paperchase, the aircraft was fired up and taxiied away for a take off on runway 27 – the shot I posted. East Midland is a secure airport and the ‘launch party’ were therefore confined to the west end of the runway. So for a period the aircraft was out of view to us. Whether it took on fuel, whether Cliff Rogers wears a helmet and as I suspect whether the ground crew wanted to give the tail wheel microswitch one final tweak after a bit of bouncing around – I can’t tell you, but the next sight we all had of the aircraft was when it took off from east to west.

I didn’t say that the frontwindscreen wasn’t the personal choice of Roland. I said that the CAA have a safety issue with them and I believe have declined requests for a retro fit and also the use on other Mk XI aircraft.

Mark

Mark

Fair enough the photo might have been taken on the day of the first flight but not wishing to be pedantic it wasn’t taken ”taxiing out for its first post restoration flight”.

As regards the windscreen it was definitely changed at the request of the owner (Roland Fraissinet), and not any regulatory requirements.

Joe,

I think I know when I take my own photographs. 😉

17 July 1984. East Midlands. First post restoration flight.

I think you will find that the CAA does have an issue with the PR single glaze PR wrap-round windscreen.

Mark

Regarding some of the points raised about PL983.

The MK XI lower cowling was with the aircraft at East Midlands, but was modified to a MK IX type as was the oil tank. The camera access panels were also modified to the solid type also. This was at the request of the owner.

There was no problem with the PR windscreen as far as the CAA were concerned, it was just replaced again at the request of the owner because he found it difficult to judge the landings because of the vision being distorted to the side.

I think Mark 12’s picture was not taken on the day of the first flight, as Cliff has not got his hat on, and there is a panel missing from under the tail, so was probably just out on test.

Originally posted by DazDaMan
IIRC, from the book Spitfire in Blue, there was more possibility of the windscreen being damaged/destroyed due to bird-strike at low level – even though the prop would have made a pretty good mess of any bird that came near it – hence the change to the armoured windscreen.

Daz

Of course they didn’t have bird strikes in WWII. :rolleyes:

Actually a bird has a pretty good chance of flying through the prop unscathed if you think about it. Consider the swept area of the prop ‘disc’ over a small fraction of a second of nine inches or so of forward movement. It is probably only about 25% swept. The bird has a 3:1 chance of getting away with it.

Engine revs, reduction gear ratio, ground speed……. OK dive for your calculators.

Mark

Mark
You’re absolutley correct about the chin cowling.
It was my memory playing up again–happens more and more.
The only other picture I have of ‘983 at Old warden is this very poor illustration.
As you can see at one point probably late sixties–someone applied invasion stripes to her.
They were removed by the time I was photographed with her.
You can probably put me right here also but wasn’t she rather sold out from under the nose s of some volenteers who’d been working on her at Duxford? Rather to their annoyance–presumably by the Shuttleworth management of the time.
I do rember seeing bits of her at Duxford in the very early eighties.
I think she was pretty much a basket case at that time.
All the best
Andy

I believe the CAA got a bit tetchy about these PR screens and it was later changed to Mk IX type.

IIRC, from the book Spitfire in Blue, there was more possibility of the windscreen being damaged/destroyed due to bird-strike at low level – even though the prop would have made a pretty good mess of any bird that came near it – hence the change to the armoured windscreen.

Andy in Beds,

PL983 retained its deep chin lower cowling throughout the total time it was Old Warden, up to August 1975, when it moved to Duxford for an airworthy restoration.

The restoration was finalised by Trent Aero at East Midlands and by that time the cowling had been changed to a Mk IX type although the non armoured front sceen was retained. I believe the CAA got a bit tetchy about these PR screens and it was later changed to Mk IX type.

Here is a shot of PL983 taxiing out for the first post restoration flight at East Midlands on 17 July 1984. Pilot – Cliff Rogers of Rolls Royce.

Mark

I thought that’s what it said on there, but I couldn’t be sure.

Mark12 – I’ve got some MH434 shots from DX, 2000, if required for the proposed book – not sure how good the quality is, mind. :rolleyes:

Andy in Beds,

Here is a shot of the words on the side of the aircraft. It was the personal mount of the US Air Attache – Livingston Satterthwaite. He is the shorter chap on the left in the previous photo.

Mark

Wonderful, wonderful–many thanks Mark 12.
A really atmosheric shot of a great machine and pilot.
Two things I notice from the picture. Firstly, she still had her PR Mk XI large chin/oil tank fitted at that time–removed I think by the time she was stood at Old Warden and I wonder what the inscription on the fuselage side says.
Got anymore pictures from that meeting?
Many thanks again.
Andy

Lympne, Lettice Curtis – 1948

Enjoy.

Mark

Photo credit: A S C Lumsden

Yep, read about that before, although not in so much detail.

I took more photos of this Spitfire than any others at the Battle of Britain show at Duxford in 2000 – I was hoping to build an R/C model of her, but this fell through 🙁

Still, I hope ARCo/Propshop do resurrect her in the near future – would be great to see her flying again, if not in the BofB colour scheme.

PL983

Daz
although PL983 didn’t have much of a military career did you know she was entered and raced by the famous lady ferry pilot Lettice Curtis in a couple of racing events in the late forties?
The write up I have on the events of 28th August 1948 at Lympne go like this.
“The high speed handicap provided plenty of noise and excitement with Flt Lieut Colquhoun as the winner in a Spitfire Mk.VIII trainer (G-AIDN), Gp Capt John Cunningham second in a Vampire F. Mk.3 (VV190), J.O. Matthews third in the Firefly F.R. Mk.4 (Z1835), Sqn Ldr J.D. Derry fourth in another Vampire F.Mk.5 (VV217) and Miss E. Lettice Curtis fifth with a blue Spitfire P.R. Mk.XI, N74138 (PL983). Also competing were Sqn Ldr W.J.G. Morgan flying a Spitfire F.Mk.24 (VN324) and Sqn Ldr T.S. Wade on a Fury F.Mk.1 (NX802). After the race on the 28th August Lettice Curtis flew the Spitfire P.R. Mk.XI over the 100km closed-circuit course to set a new international record in it’s class at 313.208 MPH.”
See you were right about her being a thoroughbred!!
Oh, to have been in the paddock of that little event on that day.
All the best
Andy

Nah, probably not! I’ll be going for the ‘cool’ 😎 look in front of any warbirds I get the chance to pose with 😉

Re: PL983

Originally posted by Andy in Beds
Hi Daz
here’s a somewhat earlier picture of PL983 (and yes that’s me) taken at Old Warden I think in 1971.
(dates me a bit)
Even the camera used was a museum piece being a Zeiss Contessa roll film camera that my Dad ‘liberated’ from a member of the Afrika Korps during WW2.
Happy days but on a more serious note I was upset to hear about her fate as I always hoped I’d have my picture taken with her again one day.
All the best
Andy

Andy

I think the Aircraft Restoration Company (or Propshop) have bought the tragic remains of this Spit, with a view to a long-term restoration. Hopefully she’ll fly again, but I have no idea if or when she will.