DB-3 in Russia

Read my earlier post, keep emotions uit the equation please.;)

Cees

At risk of seeming very rude, and starting a bit of a flame war, the Russians have a very different attitude towards death, and the dead, to us. Like it or not, we have to accept that.

I see that Cold War stupidity and mindless sheep-like propaganda are still alive and well. How wonderful….

The matter of these ‘findings’ in Russia is one of great complexity, and sadly of profiteering economics. These are ‘diggers’; there is little if any chance that the poor remains will be turned over for a proper burial. This aircraft, and most found in Russia, has been located to sell to Westerners, and nothing else. No research, archaeology nor proper scientific examination of the wreck or remains will have been completed. They will sell anything– any part of their history– for cash.

Stripped of their historical identity, their national pride, subject to unscrupulous Western propaganda (as above), and with virtually no prospects of a proper, normal income, this is the inevitable result. Very tragic, indeed….

Now I will leave you to conduct your search for the hoards of evil Communist conspirators who no doubt infest all of the various shrubbery near your present location. Having no regard “like yourself” for human life [NB: I hope you realise with appropriate shame that this tripe is right off the desk of Josef Goebbels], god alone knows what they can get up to….

Just to be sure, I merely noticed that personal items of the crew are among the photo’s not to start a heated debate about the do’s and don’t of wreck recovery. You know where I stand about this.

The current public opinion in the Netherlands is to recover these wrecks to render safe any UXB and to give any remaning crewmembers a proper burial.
I think it’s a good idea to recover this Russian wreck, sure it’s not a nice job but a necessary one.

Before emotions might get out of hand with these topics, first think before pressing enter.:)

Cheers

Cees

The link came from here, with details of the crew and some very grisly pictures of their remains: http://warrelics.eu/forum/armour-weapons-aircraft/515-db-3-bomber-recovered-karelia-2006-year.html Hopefully they ended up in a more dignified situation.

I don’t see anything grisly in those pictures. Is it the uniforms that you find grisly?

If so, I see them as an indication of the level of natural presevation, which is quite extraordinary.

Ken

I believe those who rebuilt it tried, without success, to get drawings from those involved with the flying replicas in the US, understandable I guess….

Dave

Rebuilt Ki-43

Dave

….and not very well, at that……

It’s more ‘representative’ than ‘replica’…. 😀

More Victory Park photos here – scroll down a bit….

Ken

There are more pictures of the recovery here (my Russian fails me so I don’t know if this is the recovery group) http://www.szpoisk.spb.ru/ge.php?path=/nahodki/db3

The link came from here, with details of the crew and some very grisly pictures of their remains: http://warrelics.eu/forum/armour-weapons-aircraft/515-db-3-bomber-recovered-karelia-2006-year.html Hopefully they ended up in a more dignified situation.

A slightly unsavoury site which is big on trophy hunting and low on history (lots of people holding relics with their faces blanked out!). A certain blogger would probably choke on his kendal mint cake if he came across it.

What is the Jap aircraft in the background in the last pic?………..Martin

Rebuilt Ki-43

Dave

What is the Jap aircraft in the background in the last pic?………..Martin

FWIW, DB-3 at Monino……

Il-4 at Victory Park….

Ken

At risk of seeming very rude, and starting a bit of a flame war,

Adrian

No worries from my side – its a discussion/debate after all, and you and Tangmere both make good points. There is I believe, a very different view of death and the dead in Russia as you say.

Before judgement is made, surely we do not know whether the guys working on this salvage operation recovered the aircrew and, if so, if that aspect of things has been approriately dealt with.

Is it better to leave them in the swamp?

I’m pretty sure they will get a proper burial once they are back in civilisation. Lets not go overboard on this, they are not vandalising the wreck, they are recovering it. Besides, the images do not show any disrespectful treatment of dead airmen.

Its too easy to be appalled be the mere idea of a wargrave, why not consider the chance of these men returning at last. We all know they deserve it and if there is no budget for flying banners and the last post being played on site, then so be it. At least they are not forgotten in a distant swamp.

Edited to say i support Adrian Grey 🙂

You know – I never thought of that, clothes, food, weapons. That’s a grave…..that’s not right if thats the case?

At risk of seeming very rude, and starting a bit of a flame war, the Russians have a very different attitude towards death, and the dead, to us. Like it or not, we have to accept that. Of course, if there’s a legal position involved, it might be different…

(dons tin hat – we’ve had one or two of these before, anyone remember the head in the carrier bag?)

Adrian

Not to mention crewmembers still on board.

Cheers

Cees

You know – I never thought of that, clothes, food, weapons. That’s a grave…..that’s not right if thats the case?

Hard people those Russians….

However, its nice to see aviation archeology is doing well in Russia. There are ALOT of WWII aircraft scattered across that country.

Not to mention crewmembers still on board.

Cheers

Cees

Interesting approach to working with old munitions as well !