DC-3 Barrel rolling

DC-3 on floats:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pJ6zTZuq5zw&feature=feedwll

Here you go, and this is more than any pilot needs to know:

Fineness ratio is a term used in aerospace engineering to describe the overall shape of a streamlined body. Specifically, it is the ratio of the length of a body to its maximum width; shapes that are “short and fat” have a low fineness ratio, those that are “long and skinny” have high fineness ratios.

Now you can forget it.

No I can’t forget it.

For years I’ve lived by the old saying
“I prefer my girls built for comfort,

not speed” 😉

Ice Pilots:

http://www.eaavideo.org/video.aspx?v=110918534001

Here you go, and this is more than any pilot needs to know:

Fineness ratio is a term used in aerospace engineering to describe the overall shape of a streamlined body. Specifically, it is the ratio of the length of a body to its maximum width; shapes that are “short and fat” have a low fineness ratio, those that are “long and skinny” have high fineness ratios.

Now you can forget it.

All this technical stuff is good but I havent seen any mention of “Fineness Ratio’s” in relation to the aerodynamics and performance of an aircraft ??

Or am I making things to technical ?

It all boils down to *if man was meant to fly we would have been born with wings and covered in feathers*

So is there a final answer? YES or NO?

YES the DC-3 can.

NO on the particular occasion, raising the question, it didn’t.

WHAT constitutes a ‘barrel roll’ (including how to spell it) is debated.

42 is, apparently the final answer. All you need is the question. 😉

HTH

So is there a final answer? YES or NO?

Douglasdriver,
Thanks for posting a great video. Liked the propellor vortices and the formation break. Just shows how well these machines keep going if they are given TLC.

Kind of slow now so how about a nice DC-3 clip?

This event was in my back yard last summer. My 20 year old son is in the left seat at 01:25. He is a third generation DC-3 pilot and to this day is fully qualified and current in the DC-3.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=si0PpuGpgA8&NR=1

hehe – yes, I resisted that one – full explanation on ‘Wonderful thing about Tighar’ post..

Hilary’s WHAT?, Beermat

Sorry – tell you what, there’s a nice picture of Hilary Swank to look at on another thread! :p 😉

Thanks Don for the work in posting. I wonder why it has suddenly gone quiet ?

zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz! :dev2:

Yeah, makes sense 🙂

Good post. He mentions another technique but I’ve never heard of anyone preferring a zero G version and that certainly wouldn’t be preferable in the Dakota. I also suspect that during the zero G version that the wings are still producing lift. 😀

..OK, I have nothing more to say, but.. this guy has! – By Gordon Penner, MCFI-Aerobatic, FAA Gold Seal Instructor – Very helpful stuff, which he introduces with “So let us now define the true, non-competition, coordinated, smooth, corkscrew Aileron Roll. I call it the Bob Hoover Roll.”

..http://www.iac34.com/media//DIR_24801/4dba26778a30c360ffff9630ffffe415.pdf – “A Roll is a Roll is a Roll – Or Is It?”

One sentance in particular caught my eye, bearing in mind my zero-G roll bugbear….

“The two main kinds of smooth Aileron Rolls are the 1G and the Zero G Aileron Rolls. First, after a good entry speed is
reached, the pilot pitches up with the wings level to between 20 to 45 degrees nose up. Bob Hoover uses about 60 to
70 degrees nose up with the Shrike Commander. The power should be full at this point and remain full throughout the
maneuver. Once the pitch up target is reached comes the pause, where the pilot pushes the elevator control forward to
establish either 1G or Zero G before rolling. The pilot must not change this G load as the roll input is initiated, and the G
load should stay the same throughout the roll. If more than 1G is felt while the roll is happening the pilot is pulling
enough to be moving over into Barrel Roll territory”.

With respect and deference to your vast experience, Douglasdriver, the ‘Zero G’ option does seem to chime with the manouver Henshaw described, over which you have doubts.

Anyway, a lot of clearly described and seemingly authoritative stuff here – from the point of view of the sport aerobatic sector of aviation only, of course, but nevertheless worth a read.

James, on the ‘ballistic roll’ thing – it seems that this phrase is universally used when describing the manouver sometimes taught to get out of unusual, awkward or confusing attitudes (what Henshaw said he was doing the first time he did it), as a more specific term than ‘aileron roll’. This is because of the complete removal of loads from the aircraft that the manouver is aiming at – called ‘unloading’ – in other words, zero G. To quote a post on another forum from another aerobatic pilot, Eric Sandifer:

“3) Ballistic rolls – this is basically pitching the airplane up a bit, unloading the elevator to the zero lift position (zero G) and rolling the airplane while maintaining zero wing lift. This roll requires no rudder, since there is no adverse yaw at zero AOA. You might throw a tiny bit of oil out the breather doing this one. Secure loose cockpit items too”.

Note how this matches (no rudder) the description by Gordon Penner (in the full version) of the second category of smooth aileron roll.

Thanks for the AP!

I went quiet because I had nothing useful to add 🙂

Well personally I went quiet when the thread got bogged down in theory of flight…nice to see the A.P – certainly nothing to argue about in there from me !

rgds baz

Thanks Don for the work in posting. I wonder why it has suddenly gone quiet ?