DC-3/C-47 (NB old 2002 thread)

RE: DC-3/C-47

Interesting points. Did you happen to look at the pictures of that modernized AC-47 gunship? I’m not sure which South American country has them converted like that, but surely it would be a devastating weapon even today. Three 7.62-mm miniguns may not have the firepower of the guns on the AC-130H/U, but they are still very deadly weapons. Did you know that the upgraded DC-3TP (BT-67), which that picture is of, has virtually NO IR-signature. So MANPADS wouldn’t be too effective against it.

RE: DC-3/C-47

PII,

I think that the original forerunner of the AC-47 Gunship was largely a C-47 with the windows removed and either .30 or .50 calibre machine guns mounted there, similar to the waist gun positions on B-17’s 0r B-24’s. I think somewhere in the literature on Vietnam there were incidents of troopers firing M-79 grenade launchers (bloopers) out of the open rear doors.

Another interesting point is what actually constitutes a gunship? O-1 and O2’s were used extensively by forward air controllers (FAC’s) in Vietnam fitted with phosphorous marking rockets. There were also incidences of O-1’s having an M-60 machine gun fitted to fire through the side windows of the aircraft. Later there were the AC-47, AC-119 and AC-130 aircraft as well as the helicopter gunships, UH-1, AH-1 etc. It’s worth noting that in the hostile environment the Americans faced in Vietnam that virtually NO aircraft took to the skies without some form of armament, however rudimentary.

Regards,

kev35

RE: DC-3/C-47

Has the C-47/DC-3 ever made use of small-arms firing from the windows. I read the C-47 had provision for them. I’m not talking about the gunship here, just a regular C-47 (pick your model). Good info Skythe. Thanks.

RE: DC-3/C-47

A wonderfull aircraft, with an amazing history, especially in IDF/AF service. The first IDF/AF Dakota was actually an Air France aircraft that was damaged in an attack by Egyptian fighters on Sde Dov in mid May 1948. It was only slightly damaged and subsequently commandeered into the IDF/AF. During the 1948 War of Indepedence both Israel and Egypt used the type as a bomber. As a matter of fact, the IDF/AF’s first aerial kills were two Egyptian Dakotas that bombed Tel-Aviv on June 3rd 1948. They were intercepted and shot down by Modi Alon in an Avia S.199. (attached photo)
The type also played an important part in the 1956 Suez campaign, when they dropped Israeli paratroops onto the Mitla Pass in the Sinai, and also in the 1967 war, with support for Israeli forces on the Egyptian front.
The type was only recently retired from IDF/AF service, after more than 50 years in service. My dad, who did some paradrops, jumped off the plane a number of times. He actually dislikes the plane, saying he never had any problem jumping, it alway seemed safer than staying inside. 🙂

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RE: DC-3/C-47

Sounds like a good point to me, but at least the Basler upgrade is a sure-fire way to keep the DC-3/C-47 flying. I’ve never been fortunate enough to see a DC-3/C-47 in person. I’m sure I will someday as I’m pursuing a career in aviation.

RE: DC-3/C-47

Yes I know they are more fuel efficient and more powerful, but those Basler birds don’t SOUND like Dakota’s!!!!!!
KeithMac..

RE: DC-3/C-47

Kev, your comments were very true, and Keith, that story was really interesting. Thanks for the input guys! Here’s some interesting pictures I found of the DC-3 upgrade known as the Basler Turbo Company’s BT-67 (also known as DC-3TP I believe). The main part of the upgrade is a pair of more powerful yet more economical Pratt & Whitney Canada PT6A-67R turboprop engines with five-bladed props. Here’s some pictures of what seems to be an AC-47 gunship that has been drastically upgraded. Hope you like them.

http://www.baslerturbo.com/specialop.html

RE: DC-3/C-47

An old RAF Dakota pilot mate once told me another use of the Dakota, as a TAXI! The RAF detachment at Gatow (Berlin) was on the opposit side of the airfield from the domestic accomodation. It proved almost impossible to cross the airfield to go for lunch or knock off in the evening because aircraft had priority over vehicles on the movement area. To get around this, he would pile all the troops into the Station Flt Dakota and Taxy across the airfield, then shut down and everyone went to lunch or dinner. Everyone would climb aboard after eating and return to the tech site. After a couple of times, air traffic got the idea, but played along. He reckoned the aircraft did more miles on the ground than it did in the air!
KeithMac

RE: DC-3/C-47

Indeed, an interesting and influential aircraft both in civil and military aviation. One wonders whether the designers knew just how successful it would be. This however was helped in no small part by the huge numbers built for military service in World War Two and the fact that so many were available after the war which helped fledgling airlines to open up so many routes.

It’s use as a paratoop carrier, glider tug, general transport, casevac a/c and, I believe, as a bomber during one of the Arab/Israeli conflicts, together with its rugged reliability ensured it would have a long career with the military. Later service in Vietnam saw this a/c pioneering the role of fixed wing gunship,(spooky), as an illumination platform, (basketball), and as an electronic intelligence gatherer.

Living not too far from Coventry, Atlantics Dakotas have been a welcome sight and sound in the air, often late at night when they are on their cargo runs. I wonder how long this aircraft will maintain it’s most welcome presence in the skies?

I once knew a chap who was trained on Dakotas just after the war and described it as a delightful aircraft to fly. He tried to stay on in the RAF after his commission was over but was released and then joined the Army Air Corps flying Auster AOP9’s until the late 1950’s.

Regards,

kev35

RE: DC-3/C-47

Of course its the greatest aircraft(still is) ever built in the history of civil aviation. Last year it was also rated as the most beautiful a/c ever built.