Dear RAF Museum Hendon

I managed to speak to the leading light of the Halifax appeal before his untimely death. It wasn’t a matter of cost or using the entire budget of the museum for ten years – it was a matter of will that’s all. As for restoration
it’s perfectly feasible to restore her in sections one step at a time . There are restoration shops that could handle the work at present and it could be done at a sensible cost. What we need to remember is that the reason the Halifax
was recovered was to fill a ‘missing’ gap – not provide the RAFM with a slowly deteriorating hulk. Whether we like it or not the Halifax is corroding away in he same way that the polished B-17 is round the corner. The idea of surface finish is to protect the aircraft from moisture which causes corrosion – add to that dissimilar metals and you have some thing that has a finite life.
Whether people agree with the depth of the Canadian restoration or not – they have a machine that has been corrosion proofed with the latest products and will stand for a long time as a memorial – the Hendon Halifax
will not survive structurally intact in a similar way. Restoration involves compromise – the Hendon Halifax could be restored to the condition that she left the U.K in – it just requires imagination and will.

c/n? If it’s the serial no you’re after it is W1048 TL-S

Would appreciate to get the c/n of the Hendon Halifax

Thks in advance

I knew I knew something about it, but obviously not enough. 🙂

I just wonder how Brooklands ever managed to raise the Wellington R-Robert from Loch Ness and restore it to the magnificent exhibit it is now? The Halifax at the time it was raised was the only one existing and certainly appears in better condition now than R Robert did when it arrived. Perhaps the missing phrase here is ‘enthusiastic management’ That’s what has brought Concorde Delta Golf home to Brooklands and encouraged a team of volunteers to form to help restore it.
mmitch.

Moggy’s 2p

Why would it be ‘better’ restored, rather than as it is? Here we have a near 100% genuine airframe displayed in a way that contrasts with the near pristine Wellington and Lancaster close to it.

It is an interesting exhibit as it is. Why do we think it would be more interesting if it were largely composed of new material and standing on its undercarriage. Surely that’s what the YAM replica is for?

There is no room to restore the aircraft at Hendon. Why should it disappear into a workshop somewhere with the likelihood it would not reappear in some of our lifetimes?

The only bit I’m not happy with is the at-odds front turret.

Moggy

Peter

As I mentioned, I suspect there is an issue with structural integrity. And if there is an issue with the engine bearers, one can only imagine the state of the spars and so on. That said, there is a lot of stuff that could go back in and on her to better illustrate the whole.

At least the Halifax is substantially complete. The Hampden was little more than a complete wreck when found, and it would have been difficuly to display in any meaningful way.

Volunteers are indeed one way of restoring aircraft like this, but in a national museum would require an infrastructure to support them, and 2-3 full time staff. The Canadian museum do have full time staff as well as volunteers.

BAe have and do continue to help organisations where they can. Filton and Hawarden have both helped us on the Mosquito prototype, as have Marshalls of Cambridge. But it still all comes down to money in the end.

Bruce

dhfan,

I dont have a copy of the Westland Putnams to hand, despite being sure I had it! Oh well. I will investigate though.

Bruce

Whatever our views on the Halifax I seem to recall at the time the RAF Museum said it would take their entire staff and budget for 10 years to restore it.
Personally, I would prefer to see it restored but it just isn’t practical on that basis.

BTW, didn’t the Wallace use D.H.9 wings?

thanks Bruce
See my point exactly. why on earth are parts of her in store at cosford when she was a complete aircraft when recovered…?!

Urm…..

Wasn’t the Canadian Halifax restored with volunteer labour, which makes the limited budget argument somewhat specious…..

Haven’t for instance BAe helped YAM with their Halifax and the FAAHF with Swordfishes, Firefly, Sea Fury and Sea Hawk; didn’t Westland help the IHM etc etc so there is a keeness within the industry to assist where possible.

Trouble is realistically it will be difficult to do anything now on the RAFM Halifax as the “rebuild-it” and “leave-it” camps are entrenched (as this thread shows) and any decision would be seen as a “victory” for one side or the other….

Still think that if they’re going to the trouble they have with the Hampden they might as well go the extra mile and bring it back to pristine condition. Perhaps they intend for the half and half to be new/old skin

I wonder how history will judge us?

Peter,

I actually agree with you on this – It wouldnt hurt to dig out all the other bits from Cosford, and refit it all – there is a lot of it in store still!

However, I suspect that the engines arent fitted to bearers because of concerns about the structural integrity of the bearers, and their ability to support weight.

I wonder if a lot of the problem with the Halifax is the time it took between removing it from the Lake, and it going on display. At the time it was recovered, it was perhaps easy to make a sweeping statement to the effect that it would be restored, and then once reality had set in, the decision was made to display it as it is now.

Bruce

The debate rages on

Archie I hope you dont mind me borrowing these pics from your site so that people can understand my post here…

Ok Guys if the halifax is such a great display as is unrestored etc then I do agree with you…

BUT………

If they are going to display her as she was on the lake bed then for cripes sake do it that way… I for one would love to see her looking like the attached pic not as she is today with large area of sheet metal missing from the nose no glass engines dumped on the ground etc etc!?

Just one thing, defenders of Hendon’s botched display of the Halifax keep going on about

the RAFM’s finite and meagre budget

I remember as a young lad contributing to the Halifax* (Halifax) fund – I was told then the money raised was to be spent on restoring her to display condition – where did that money go? Transferred to other sexier projects? isn’t that technically theft?

*Halifax is also the name of a building society un the UK, they supported the fundraising

For those who are not familiar with the history of this particular Halifax, it is a short history. Built by the English Electric Company in March 1942

Interesting, my grandfather may have been one of those that built it, as he worked at GE, Preston, from the late 30’s into the early 40’s.

Ok guys, maybe I should not be entering into this debate, as I’m not a UK resident, and my tax does not go into these Museums.

Regarding the Hallibag, all I can say is, leave it alone! It is a fantastic monument in it’s own right. Me and my wive went to Hendon this summer and although I had been there a couple of times before, this was a first for my wive. What really stood out for her was the Halifax, and she is not the typical anorac. To restore it to pristine condition would effectively destroy it as an original airframe, and the cost would be just horrendous. Maybe it would be a better, and cheaper, idea to make a full size plastic replica, that way, those who want see how a Halifax looked up close would be satisfied. Besides, it would be just about as original as a rebuilt W1048 :rolleyes:

On another note, I’m constantly lightly amused by the ramblings that go on here from time to time regarding museum pieces in the UK. I don’t think you know how fourtunate you really are! At least you HAVE aviation museums, lots of them, and somewhere you can find an example of NEARLY all historic types (please note I said nearly, not ALL). To put things into prespective for you, Iceland does not have a SINGLE aviation museum, as such. There is one small hangar at Akureyri airport filled privately owned light aircraft (J3 Cub, C-140 etc.) that brand them selfs as a museum. That’s it. The Icelandic Historic Aviation Society has for years been fight an uphill battle, trying to save artifacts and airframes, and is not getting any support from any government body. In fact they actually TAX us for trying to save the country’s heritage! If it is not a Viking Age sword, we are actually punished for preservation of artifacts.

If you want to view the Icelandic Aviation History, you would have to excavate the southern end of runway 01-19 in Reykjavik. There are the remains of once proud aircraft. To name a few, AT6, Stinson Reliant, DC4, Proctors, Magister and Catalina, to name just a few. So if you ever fly into Reykjavik and land on RWY 01, you know you have just landed on the Icelandic Aviation Museum.

Rant over 😉

Yes, the money has to be found from somewhere to pay for all those architects.

Arrrgggghhhhh……………….. :diablo:

Don’t even get me started on that absurd waste of money…… 😡

Yes, the money has to be found from somewhere to pay for all those architects.

That’s really what I meant. The big money only comes in for the high-profile projects. So where a simple (?) hangar would get aircraft under cover, we get hugely expensive developments. Meanwhile national treasures sit in the rain for years. But these amounts, or even a fraction of them, just aren’t forthcoming for individual aircraft. Most museums try their damndest to do both, and if they’re lucky they can use some of the big grants to conserve exhibits. It doesn’t always work out. Which is not to say that museums don’t mismanage resources, they do. It’s getting better in my opinion, much higher standards of accountability.

Besides, I can’t complain too loudly, as I wouldn’t have my job if it weren’t for AirSpace.. It does have a lot of potential as both accommodation for aircraft and as an interpretation centre, and we will do our best with what we have at the end of it.

[EDIT – Excellent post Bruce. Even the best-intentioned and most well-managed museum could not do what you ask, at least not in the UK]

Leornato

Do you, or have you ever worked on or with Vintage Aircraft in any capacity?

Do you have any understanding of the financial commitment required to rebuild aircraft such as this, whether to static or airworthy condition?

Do you have any comprehension of the funding issues relating to our national museums?

These museums do not have a huge bag of money just waiting to be spent. Many of them, even though they are national museums just about keep going from year to year, and do not have huge conservation departments to carry out these restorations.

Do you really think the Battle is a complete airframe, complete in every respect? Far from it. That and many of the others in the collection. They do what they can with the resources they have available. Do you think there are any aircraft in the collection that could have a battery put on them and they would operate? Forget it.

The Beaufort is indeed far from complete. I know it well, having been one of the team that painted it, and having been one of the team that assembled it in the museum. It is representative of a Beaufort, but only that. The fact is that the museum would have preferred a better airframe, but a complex deal was done without their input, which saw the aircraft delivered in the state you see it today. It has nothing to do with any policy of theirs. Frankly it needs to come right apart, and should be completely done again, but that would be a huge undertaking.

They dont have a Mk 1 Anson, they have a Mk 1 Anson FUSELAGE. It was part of a deal with the Fighter collection, that also saw a real RAF Sabre delivered to the museum, and a Mk 2 Tempest restored and put on display. Its on the Queen Mary, cos thats all there is!

Yes, wings for a Westland Wallace are not available. Perhaps you would like to do some research of your own, and see if you can find drawings for Westland Wallace Wings. I bet you cant. So what do you want them to do, put on something mocked up, and made out of the wrong materials? I would rather see it as it is.

You must realise (going back to my earlier point) that there is only so much money available. Once it runs out, you stop, it is as simple as that. The RAF Museum, are, and rightly so, putting their funding into getting as much of the collection under cover as possible. Once that is done, it may be time to consider some of the airframes that need rework.

As for the Halifax, read ArchieRAF’s post above – It really says it all.

Bruce

They’re going to do a half and half restoration of the Hampden- WHAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!???????????????

What is it with that place? Why do they insist on filling the place with wrecks, half complete restorations or wholly inappropriate and totally irrelevant exhibits?

They have a very rare Mark 1 Anson, what do they do with it? They mount it on a Queen Mary trailer and leave it half complete and in bits!

They have a unique Westland Wallace and they leave it half finished as the wings are “not available”

They have an empty shell of a Beaufort-WHY ISNT IT FINISHED???????

Why is it that if you want to see as Halifax, a Hampden, a Hudson or a Canberra B(I)8 in a condition representative of that in which they served with the RAF you can’t see one in this country as the RAF Museum apparently can’t be bothered?