Defiant Walkaround

these are fantastic photos, would you like to pop round to Cosford and take some of the prototypes on show there. 😀

john

http:www.airwarfareforum.com

Great photos James thanks for sharing!

Great stuff, James, and a very sobering thought to those of use who would have been young enough at the time, who might have had to go up in one…

I just thought I’d have a trawl through Whalebone’s posts for the Defiants (Thanks WB). Here’s the late August casualties:

SATURDAY AUGUST 24th 1940 THE CASUALTIES

1240hrs: Off Ramsgate. Defiant N1535. 264 Squadron Hornchurch
S/L P.A.Hunter listed as missing
P/O F.H.King listed as missing. (Last seen chasing Ju88 out to sea after attack on Manston)

1240hrs: Off Ramsgate. Defiant L6966. 264 Squadron Hornchurch
P/O J.T.Jones listed as missing
P/O W.A.Ponting listed as missing. (Last seen in combat with Ju88s & Bf109s over the Channel)

1245hrs: Off Manston. Defiant L7027. 264 Squadron Hornchurch
F/O I.G.Shaw listed as missing
Sgt A.Berry listed as missing. (Possibly shot down by Bf109 into Channel after raid on Manston)

1600hrs: Manston. Defiant L6965. 264 Squadron Hornchurch
Sgt W.H.Machin died of wounds. (Shot down by Bf109 over base. Pilot was slightly injured)

MONDAY AUGUST 26th 1940 THE CASUALTIES:

1226hrs: Off Herne Bay. Defiant L6985. 264 Squadron Hornchurch
Sgt. B.Baker listed as missing. (Crashed into Thames Estuary after hit by gunfire from Bf109. Pilot safe)

1226hrs: Off Herne Bay. Defiant L7025. 264 Squadron Hornchurch
Sgt. W.Maxwell listed as missing. (Crashed into Thames Estuary after hit by gunfire from Bf109. Pilot safe)

WEDNESDAY AUGUST 28th 1940 THE CASUALTIES:

0855hrs: N of Ashford. Defiant N1574. 264 Squadron Hornchurch
P/O D.Whitley killed.
Sgt. R.C.Turner killed. (Shot down by Bf109 during combat)

0855hrs: Thanet (Kent). Defiant L7026. 264 Squadron Hornchurch
P/O P.L.Kenner killed.
P/O C.E.Johnson killed. (Shot down by Bf109 during combat)

0920hrs: Faversham (Kent). Defiant L7021. 264 Squadron Hornchurch
F/L R.C.V.Ash killed. (Shot down by Bf109 and crashed in flames. Pilot baled out unhurt)

For more information on the actions of the day click the link below.

http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/august31.html

Thanks Steve.

There are records of the survivor rates, and Whalebone’s ‘We Remember’ and link for August 1940 tells the story all too well.

I can’t honestly remember how big the hatch was; IIRC, it was aft of the turret, so the turret had to be pointing forward to use the hatch; and it was about 2 ft dia; easy to get through without flying gear, but a wiggle. In combat? Not a hope. Count on the cupola doors. The gunners used a ‘GQ Para suit’; an overall flying suit with an integral parachute (there’s a dummy wearing one by the a/c nowadays) and made him a good bit fatter. It wasn’t a great suit to end up in the water with either…

James, a quick question about the hatch – just how big (or small) is it? I would guess maybe eighteen to twenty four inches in diameter? The photo doesn’t really give much impression of size…

I was invited to get into the turret (we weren’t alowed on the wing, or into the cockpit) and it’s an experience I’ll never forget. You are very cramped; even without flying gear. The view out is appalling, with blind spots, reflections and angle iron all over the place. Imagine (as I did) trying to draw a bead on a 300mph Bf109E in the heat of a manuvering battle while being flung about by your pilot’s manoveres; getting out if your aircraft was hit… And the majority of the gunners were Sergeants. Lower pay, often not priefed, and required to undertake Sergent’s duties as well as flying duties.

Thanks James for the fabulous photos; a unique perspective of a unique survivor.

And the passage quoted above… well… I don’t think there’s ever an easy way to go to war, but this certainly seems to have been tougher than many. Bad visibility, lack of protection, only a small and difficult way out when it all goes horribly wrong… my admiration for the Defiant crews grows ever stronger.

Out of interest, I wonder how many Defiant gunners actually managed to get out after their aircaft was hit? I would suspect the ratio would be quite small… 🙁

Absolutely Robbo. But the battle they were meant to fight didn’t happen. They were intended to be able to cruise, in formation, alongside massed formation of unescorted German bombers, poaring broadside after broadside into them.

The fall of France and the low countries meant that the 109 was able to reach Southern England, as we know, and with catastrophic results for the two Defiant squadrons. The scene in the Battle of Britain film of the attack on Northen England is what the Defiants were meant to be for…

Cheers!

The turret has a hatch below (though which we are able to enter) and the normal entry was through the rear camshell doors of the turret cupola. Gunsight is missing, otherwise the turret was very complete. The interconnects of the fairing, guns and rotation are not active, and the electric powered turret was turned by hand for the photos.

Note that the fuselage cross-section is an inverted triangle at the turret; to allow for the width of the cupola.

I was invited to get into the turret (we weren’t alowed on the wing, or into the cockpit) and it’s an experience I’ll never forget. You are very cramped; even without flying gear. The view out is appalling, with blind spots, reflections and angle iron all over the place. Imagine (as I did) trying to draw a bead on a 300mph Bf109E in the heat of a manuvering battle while being flung about by your pilot’s manoveres; getting out if your aircraft was hit… And the majority of the gunners were Sergeants. Lower pay, often not priefed, and required to undertake Sergent’s duties as well as flying duties.

Any questions or comments greatfully received!

Cheers