Dornier Courtesy of the BBC

I take it they’re going to pump out as much silt and sand as possible before it breaks the surface? If not I fear the weight of all that lies within will tear it apart as soon as gravity takes over.

The item to be considered is the weight of structure in water versus it’s weight in air.

I hope that the people actually doing and planning the lift are taking all the instruction received from the experts on this forum and treating with the “gravity” it deserves.

Yes the aircraft components are subject to degredation due to the fluid they have been submersed in and will need conservation and treatment to slow down the subsequent effects of being exposed to air but from what I have seen and heard quite a bit of preliminary work has been done before the planning stage and reviewed before the lift.

Ross

No. they’re just going to sling a couple of straps and hope for the best.

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But Dr Mary Ryan at Imperial College London is more optimistic. She’s the scientist drafted in by the RAF Museum to find a way of halting the plane’s corrosion, and stabilising it for the long-term. Working with one small fragment already salvaged, her team have found that soaking it in a mixture of fresh water and citric acid – lemon juice – cleans the metal and stops the corrosion.

So the museum has built two polytunnels at its conservation centre at Cosford in the West Midlands, and equipped them with a system of spray nozzles. For the next 18 months the two halves of the aircraft – wings and fuselage – will be drenched in citric acid for 10 minutes out of every 30.

But first they have to get the plane out of the water in one piece. To do that, the museum turned to a marine salvage company, Seatech. They’ve designed a special frame or cradle which they’ll build around the aircraft underwater. With divers able to work for just 45 minutes four times a day at slack water – when the tides change and the strong current on the Goodwin Sands temporarily slows – it will take them up to four weeks.

Then they’ll lift the frame with the plane inside, lay it on a barge alongside and take it ashore to go by road to Cosford and its long lemon juice bath.

Andy

I was thinking very much the same thing. I cannot believe an aircraft can’t take hitting the water at speed and cartwheeling without much more damage to the airframe

I am not entirely convinced that the wing of the Do 17 dug in and caused the aircraft to cartwheel as per the computer graphics.

As I understand it, the two survivors were in the supposed Do 17-Z when it ditched and I would have thought it more likely that it ended on its back through perhaps sinking nose first and falling onto its back on contact with the sea bed. I would have thought there would be much more damage to the wing that dug in to cause the cartwheel – if, indeed, these were the sequence of events. I would also think that the survival of the two crew would have been unlikely in the event that the wing dug in causing the aircraft to immediately go over on its back.

No doubt time will tell!

“Yet more scrap heading to Hendon!”
The scrap is going to Cosford and all the aircraft at Hendon are just scrap wood, metal and fabric so it will fit right in with the collection (they have no flyers).

” If they’re lucky it’ll still be in one piece by the time it gets there.”
More than luck, it’s planned to place the conserved final article there so it will be in one piece by planning.

” Didn’t 2 of the crew perish in the crash?”
The identity is suggested as probably but even the probable identity has the two missing crew with known graves in the UK and Holland.

” If so, then why is this not a war grave?”
No such thing as a war grave aircraft in law so no it’s not. It can only be designated as either a controlled or protected place under the Military Remains Act.

Ross

Because their bodies were recovered at the time, therefore it is not a war grave.

Didn’t 2 of the crew perish in the crash? If so, then why is this not a war grave?

Errr… If the ID is correct: http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?117291-Goodwin-Sands-Dornier&p=2019220#post2019220 might explain why.

Are you going to find a better Battle of Britain airframe for them?

Adrian

Yet more scrap heading to Hendon! If they’re lucky it’ll still be in one piece by the time it gets there. Didn’t 2 of the crew perish in the crash? If so, then why is this not a war grave?

I am sure they have taken expert advice. It is better to have tried and lost than to have never tried at all. They are not idiots.

+1, Tony.

If it’s left, it will crumble to Daz eventually whatever ,or be souveneired apart – do I recall right that R-Robert was badly damaged in Loch Ness by Neds dragging with anchors to try to retrieve souveneirs? – or the Goodwins will shift in the next storm, and it will vanish again.

If they’re right, and this aircraft was lost on the 26th of August, that’s the day my father remembers parachutes everywhere, stubble fires started by oil dropped by a burning bomber, and his 4th cousin (!) up the road apprehending a German airman at 12-bore-point. That’s the day the unfortunate German broke his leg when, irony of ironys, he hit Finchingfield’s war memorial as he landed. If I’m not mixing my Debden raids (I may well be!), a friend of my father’ retrieved Maurice Mounsdon’s helmet and returned it to his squadron, whilst Mounsdon went on to hospital alongside Richard Hillary in “The Last Enemy”.How much more tangible a link with that day could you want? Unlike certain other relics I could mention, I may even be able to photograph these!

Here’s hoping…

Adrian
(I think I may be getting a little emotional about this…:o)

PS Incidentally – I recognise that skyline in the Spitfire footage! Been to DX too many times…

This is also from the BBC, a computer simulation of the lifting operation:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-politics-22386431

This is the longer news report video:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22394606

This is a different version, with air to air footage of a Defiant:

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-22386429

My fingers are crossed for a successful outcome.

Robert M.

I am sure they have taken expert advice. It is better to have tried and lost than to have never tried at all. They are not idiots.

My virtual hat is off to them, I am delighted that they are doing this and hope to see this soon. Not all exhibits need to be pristine. When I go to the BoB museum, I spend hours looking at the names on the BoB wall, listening to ‘Nimrod’ and gazing at the remains of Maffetts Hurricane.

Do17

Worth looking at the Fw200 Condor.

Corroded and holey to the skins but the structure seems better.

If she is like this then it will be a start.

http://www.dlbs.de/en/Projects/Focke-Wulf-Condor/index.php

Mark

Time to start crossing fingers !

Stuff fingers, EVERYTHING crossed! I very badly want to see this succeed…

Adrian

I bet they never thought of that 🙂 Good job someone on here mentioned it!! 😀

Two threads mention now gravity kicking in and taking over.

I’m not aware that gravity has been switched off in the area of the Goodwins to be flicked back on if the remains surface.

The item to be considered is the weight of structure in water versus it’s weight in air.

I hope that the people actually doing and planning the lift are taking all the instruction received from the experts on this forum and treating with the “gravity” it deserves.

Yes the aircraft components are subject to degredation due to the fluid they have been submersed in and will need conservation and treatment to slow down the subsequent effects of being exposed to air but from what I have seen and heard quite a bit of preliminary work has been done before the planning stage and reviewed before the lift.

I for one am going to wait to see what unfolds.

Ross

This is interesting reading :The museum’s Prof Holger Steinle showed me the aluminium tail section of a Focke Wulf Condor. It was unrecognisable, badly eaten away, and held together largely by the limpets and barnacles attached to it.

Dorniers too, he says, were made of aluminium, which corrodes badly in sea water. He warns his colleagues in Britain not to expect too much. “In 20, 30 years you will find nothing from that Dornier. So try it. But you should not be highly optimistic. Do it, but don’t start dreaming too early