Dornier Do17 Data Plate?

Hi guys not sure if this thread is still active but any information or direction would be appreciated. On one of these plates (2843R) am I right to assume this to be Do17Z-10 Wn.2843 shot down 7/8 th May 1941? 

I’m unable to trace ZR1248 at the moment and I’d be thankful for any further leads on this.

Does anyone know if there are Dornier archives online?

Further to my most recent post – I see that the DoN number (whatever that may be) is the same on my plate as that shown on the plate which Ian has posted.
Nick

Adrain,

Many thanks for posting the drawing of the Do17 plate. It is very similar to the photograph of the one I posted but also has a couple of differences. Firstly, I think the Sach Nr. in the drawing has too many digits. I think the second 7 should be omitted to give the number 17014. This would then be consistant with the five digit number shown on mine and on that which Ian has just posted. They would then all be in the same series although I would have expected the number on mine and that on the drawing to be the same if they both came from the same aircraft. Is that a logical conclusion ?

You can just about make out a DoN number in the bottom right hand corner of my plate 166591. On the drawing in the same position there is the number 166695 – again similar but not the same.

It would be very helpful to get the thoughts of those on the Forum that know about these things.

Does anyone have the WNrs. for the other KG2 Do17z losses on 16 August ?

Nick

Got this Dornier plate a few years ago, dont know its history, very similar to yours.
Ian

Just for the data plate nuts, here’s the drawing I was sent in 1992 of the data plate for the Whitstable Dornier. I know nossink on this front, but the collection of relics at the Spitfire Memorial at Manston had a similar plate with a very close number identified as the Werke Nr plate from another Do17. The plate itself I last saw about 1993 in the Sherwood Armoury museum at Whitstable – though Google suggests that the museum is no more.

Adrian

Adrian
Have sent PM with my e-mail address.
This is the data plate from the Lorenz AAG 16 aerial matching unit. I understand this will have formed part of a FuG 16 VHF radio system. I am also told that early versions of these were installed in bombers (generally Ju88’s rather than than the older Dorniers) although I think they were generally used in single seat fighters. I was told it came from the Whitstable Do17z crash site but if the Werk Nr. 73-41 indicates a 1941 date of manufacture that obviously can’t be the case. I really don’t know if these component plates actually carried a manufacture date on them, so the suggestion that 41 refers to the date of manufacture could well be wrong. I would very much appreciate the thoughts of those who know about these things.
All the best.
Nick

You are in luck, Nick – I’ve still got the scans. PM me your email address and I’ll send them over. I’ll also attempt to drop that nice Mr Saunders a PM (popular chap – his inbox is always full) a line, see what he makes…

Somewhere I’ve a drawing of what purported to be the actual Werk Nummer plate – I’ll see if it surfaces. I have to say that it’s a well dug site – apparently an engine was recovered in the ’50s, Hawkinge were there in the ’70s, Tonbridge in 1990… and after all that, the RN blow a few bombs up in 1991-2!

Adrian

Thanks Adrian.
I have not been able to find out very much about this crash. I have Andy Saunders’ excellant book “Finding the Foe” which makes reference to it in Chapter 14 but I’ve not found much else.
The attached plate was, I believe, recovered from the site when the Tonbridge Battle of Britain Museum excavated the wreck in 1990. Unfortunately its not the main plate so no W.Nr. Do you have any idea what the R785 reference might relate to ? It has been suggested that it may refer to the aircraft having being repaired at some point
I also have a data plate which relates to the FuG radio installation. I will scan and post it seperately. Anything you or any other members may have would be very much appreciated.
All the best
Nick

I certainly do, Nick. I might even have some scanned, though I have a feeling that I deleted the scans after sending them to someone… Most of what I have is publically available from sources like The Blitz Then and Now, but I also have an account from the local newspaper, full of derring-do.

I’ll see what I can dig out – I’m looking forward to seeing the pics of your plates, if you let me know roughly what else you have info-wise I won’t scan stuff you already have.

Adrian

Hello everyone – I’m new to the Forum but hope I can add something to this thread.

Ulf Balke’s excellant book Der Luftkrieg in Europa records Mollenbrok’s Do17Z as carrying the codes U5 + LL but gives no w. nr. The other 3/KG 2 losses that day were the Do 17z’s piloted by Oblt. Brandenburg (U5 + L?) and by Ofw Gerlach (U5 + BL).

My particular interset in these aircraft is with Brandenburg;’s which crashed on Whitstable Beach. Adrian – looking at a very old posting (August 2005) I think you had some information on that particular aircraft. I would be very interested if you have anything which you may be able to share. I have a couple of data plates that I am told were recovered from the wreck. I will post photographs when back at base tonight.

All the best
Nick

Gerat (A with an umlaut – best approximation of the sound is to treat as if spelt geraet) is machine or device, so we’re looking at a plate from some kind of piece of equipment, with that piece of kit’s Werk nummer.

In the event of me being wrong about HM, I’d like to know too! I’ve spent some time investigating in a very amateurish way a machine from his unit shot down on the same raid. Twas Nils that told me – no doubt Andy will be able to confirm/refute.

Adrian

Steve

I don’t think any Werke Nummer was ever established for this aircaft.

I too knew Heinz Mollenbrok very well and he visited me quite regularly. I also took him back to the crash scene and introduced him to those who captured him on 16 Aug 1940.

I wouldn’t like to say if this item can be attributed to this aircraft or not.

Is their a difference between Werk-N and Wk. N.?
and what does “Gerat” mean? (my German is practically non existent).

I have 2 Do-17 plates, and I noticed the number scheme is different, maybe to hide production numbers.

The plates here say (best I can tell):
Gerat 17.269-09
Werk-N. C361600. 108

Is Heinz Mollenbrok (I hope Adrian is incorrect). I have been looking for anyone who flew the 17’s to get opinions, and with the fortunate exception of Capt Brown, no luck.

Any old LW pilots organization I don’t know of?

Cheers!

Gents,

Thank you for the replies.

Here’s a close up. Definitely not a main plate, no airplane W.Nr. to be seen. However, confirming the type, “17 Z” is entered in the upper left. Interesting, the maker of the item the plate came from is “Land- u. See Leichtbau” – another sub-supplier of Do17 parts is identified. The plate shows physical distress (a cut, scratches and nicks), but no sign of long term in-ground exposure. There is no paint overspray, obverse, or overrun, reverse.

Unfortunately, I do not have access to the Then and Now reference. Would someone please tell me if photos of this incident are shown in that book and if mention is made of the site being excavated post war? If it was dug, what items were recovered?

Thank you,
Steve

Steve

I don’t think any Werke Nummer was ever established for this aircaft.

I too knew Heinz Mollenbrok very well and he visited me quite regularly. I also took him back to the crash scene and introduced him to those who captured him on 16 Aug 1940.

I wouldn’t like to say if this item can be attributed to this aircraft or not.

Pathfinder (Nils) is the person to ask about Moellenbrook (I think that’s the best rendering in English, I believe it was spelt M – o-with-umlaut – ll etc), as he knew him – I believe the chap died about 2007.

The clearest account is likely to be found in Vol 1 of”The Blitz Then and Now” – available in a good library, so get there quickly before it gets closed! There may well have been other data plates recovered. I am far from an expert – someone like Andy Saunders would be your best bet to confirm my off-the-cuff diagnosis – but I’ve seen at least a couple of Do17Z data plates that are larger and with more info, even have a sketch – somewhere! I suspect that this might be from a sub assembly rather than the “main” plate, so you might get lucky.

Adrian