According to a report in New Zealand Wings magazine in the mid-1980’s, New Zealander Doug Dallison had managed to acquire six Hawker Tempests from the Indian Air Force. The report said one would be brought to New Zealand.
Does anyone know what became of these six aircraft? Did he actually get them out of India? Are they now in the UK? Did any come to NZ?
By: Roobarb - 17th August 2006 at 22:25
My understanding is India, as uneconomic to transport.
Mark
I believe Mr A was known to be quite handy with a Bulldozer at Blackbushe 😀
By: Jagan - 17th August 2006 at 21:25
I dont think there is any Tempest airframe that I know in India other than the one in the Museum. Certainly none exist at Pune.
By: HP57 - 17th August 2006 at 20:14
If the airframes were still within India I am sure Jagan would know where they would be. Jagan?
Cees
By: TEXANTOMCAT - 17th August 2006 at 12:29
From:
I think it might be a little out of date – ref French Tempest referred to above and IIRC the Indian Air Force fly their Tempest don’t they? Jagan knows I’m sure
Tempest Twos are both ex-Indian but are they both ex-Arnold – seems a co-incidence?
Anyway, here’s the list;
Mark Serial no. Civilian (Indian) Owner/Status
II LA607 N607LA Kermit Weeks, Tamiami, FL USA/Displayed at Florida Air Museum at Sun ‘n Fun.
II MW376 G-BSHW (HA564) Last reported stored in France
II MW401 G-PEST (HA604) Tempest Two Ltd/Stored/Going to IWM, Manchester, soon as a trade?
II MW404 (HA557) Last reported stored in Sussex, UK
II MW741 (HA622) Open storage, airfield decoy, Poona AB, India. (???)
II MW758 (HA580) Last reported stored in Sussex, UK
II MW763 G-TEMT (HA586) Tempest Two Ltd/Restoration to fly
II MW810 (HA591) Nelson Ezell, TX USA/Stored
II MW848 (HA623) IAF Museum, Pallan AB, New Dehli.
II PR536 (HA457) RAF Museum, Hendon
V EJ693 N7027E Kermit Weeks, Tamiami, FL USA/Under restoration at PPS to fly
TT.5 NV778 RAF Museum, Hendon
Cockpits
Mark Serial no. Owner/Status
V Ted Sinclair, Norfolk/Cockpit section
V Ted Sinclair, Norfolk/Cockpit section
Wrecks/Parts
Mark Serial no. History/Owner/Status
V EJ600 SD-F Shot down on 1 Oct 44, S/L Joe Berry KIA. Parts on display at the International Museum 1939-1945, Netherlands.
V EJ715 SA- Shot down on 22 Dec 44, pilot Bill Williams KIA. Only fuselage parts recovered.
V NV981 Shot down on 25 March 45 NV981, Flying Officer William Kalka KIA.
TT
By: DazDaMan - 17th August 2006 at 12:27
IIRC he turned up distinctly UNwell….
That’s what was implied 😉
By: TEXANTOMCAT - 17th August 2006 at 12:23
If I recall, one of the guys working on the Tempest project went missing and turned up, well…
IIRC he turned up distinctly UNwell….
By: DazDaMan - 17th August 2006 at 12:21
If I recall, one of the guys working on the Tempest project went missing and turned up, well…
By: Dave Homewood - 17th August 2006 at 09:49
Murder? I got lost long ago in this thread…
By: TEXANTOMCAT - 17th August 2006 at 09:33
Gerry Cooper is still working on them, a Harvard and the RAFM Sturmovik AFAIK.
As I say, my understanding was that both Tempests were ex-Arnold and at least one was ex-Spanhoe, pre-murder.
TT
By: T J Johansen - 17th August 2006 at 08:33
or then again maybe they are the ones that went to Nick Grace and on to new owners from there:
2 to Autocraft, now in the Midlands somewhere
1 under rebuild at Spanhoe and then to France
1 rebuilt by TFC for RAFM
1 to USA
and 1 i thought was still stored
Are those “Tempest Two” airframes still being worked at?
The one at Spanhoe went to France. After Philippe Denis death I think that his one was sold to the US. Seem to remember a brief mention in one of the british aviation monthly’s at the time.
TFC did rebuild a Tempest (exchange for the Sea Fury???)
I was in touch with Chris Horsley some time after Nick Grace’s death (1989-93) and he was trying to sell off a Tempest at that stage. Did he ever, or does he still have it?
T J
By: Mark12 - 16th August 2006 at 19:54
Were they scrapped in India itself? or Transported to UK and then scrapped.?
My understanding is India, as uneconomic to transport.
Mark
By: Jagan - 16th August 2006 at 19:50
Yes I believe that the residue of the Tempests were scrapped off as uneconomic to transport/restore/trade
Mark
Were they scrapped in India itself? or Transported to UK and then scrapped.?
By: Mark12 - 16th August 2006 at 17:50
There was also a Tempest II at Breckenridge, Texas, for a number of years; I’d always assumed that one was ex-India/ex-Arnold too?
The version of the WoGB acquisition I’d heard was probably apocryphal, namely that Mr A had bought a larger batch of grounded Tempest IIs in India, then had the bulk of those scrapped and/or interred, thus ensuring the rarity of the small number he kept. Anyone else recall hearing that slant?
S.
The Ezell’s Tempest MW810 at Breckenridge is ex Indian and formerly at the New England Museum in Connecticut. One of the six.
The original Indian Depart of Defence tender documentation of 1976, to hand, listed 11 Tempests at cat E.
Yes I believe that the residue of the Tempests were scrapped off as uneconomic to transport/restore/trade but it was 30 years ago and to put it into context a flying Spitfire then was about £35k.
Mark
By: Steve T - 16th August 2006 at 16:54
There was also a Tempest II at Breckenridge, Texas, for a number of years; I’d always assumed that one was ex-India/ex-Arnold too?
The version of the WoGB acquisition I’d heard was probably apocryphal, namely that Mr A had bought a larger batch of grounded Tempest IIs in India, then had the bulk of those scrapped and/or interred, thus ensuring the rarity of the small number he kept. Anyone else recall hearing that slant? (Besides being Machiavellian and historically heinous…frankly it doesn’t make sense: what are the most sought after “collectible” Warbirds? Spits and Mustangs. Those are scarce as mass-produced aircraft go, but common enough that a support industry has been able to develop around them. Which won’t likely happen with a half-dozen Tempests. I have often wondered, if there WAS a larger Tempest batch recovered, would we now have several Tempests on the circuit–perhaps with R3350s up front–in the manner of the two dozen Furies Jurist and Tallichet recovered from Iraq a bit later??)
S.
By: TEXANTOMCAT - 16th August 2006 at 16:15
I thought the two with Tempest Two in Lincolnshire were part of this cache…n’est pas?
TT
By: Yak 11 Fan - 16th August 2006 at 15:43
or then again maybe they are the ones that went to Nick Grace and on to new owners from there:
2 to Autocraft, now in the Midlands somewhere
1 under rebuild at Spanhoe and then to France
1 rebuilt by TFC for RAFM
1 to USA
and 1 i thought was still stored
By: Mark V - 16th August 2006 at 15:42
BMFB… Big Man From Blackbushe
😀
By: Dave Homewood - 16th August 2006 at 14:21
buried or scrapped! 😮
😮
By: HP57 - 16th August 2006 at 13:54
I see. Thanks Mark. So, where are they now? Are they still with the Arnold family?
I didn’t think that a Tempest had come to NZ. Mr Dallison apparently used to have an Isaac’s Fury which he took to the UK for some film work in the early 1990’s, then brought back. I don’t know which film though.
Dave,
These six Tempests are still missing. It is rumoured that Mr Arnold had them buried or scrapped! 😮
One of the worlds great mysteries
Cees
By: Dave Homewood - 16th August 2006 at 09:18
I see. Thanks Mark. So, where are they now? Are they still with the Arnold family?
I didn’t think that a Tempest had come to NZ. Mr Dallison apparently used to have an Isaac’s Fury which he took to the UK for some film work in the early 1990’s, then brought back. I don’t know which film though.
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August 16, 2006 at 8:39 am