Down the Crapper.

It’s called capitalism.
An older term is divide and conquor.
France and Spain haven’t embraced the American dream concept quite as gulliblely (for the moment!) as Britain has.

No, Britain NEVER had a wealthy class before the American-ethos arrived. 🙂

And to be correct, the US got “reality” TV from the UK….Big Brother (which has never been a huge hit here) and various X-factor-type talent shows and were imported from the UK.

Interesting, so in both Britain and the US the state rules the individual does it?
As clearly, based solely on the musings posted here you understand, society has failed in both countries.
That seems slightly contary to the accepted view of the US as the land of the free and opportunity for the rugged individualist. Britian i’d probably agree with, you’re a bunch of spineless “victims” over there these days. 🙂

I’d say the american dream concept has been well and truely embraced by the British populance, i offer as evidence the prevalence of inane “reality” shows that supposedly gvie the ordinary person a chance at “celebrity,” whatever that is.

Firstly you would have to accept the truth of some of “the musings posted here”. Which I don’t.

Secondly I don’t think I’d subscribe to the notion that 21st century reality TV shows are representative of the American Dream, which pre-dates television.

The “American Dream” hasn’t been embraced anywhere in Europe except ironically by Germany after the war as it had become a “new” country. The depth of the entrenchment of the welfare state has destroyed the majority’s sense of responsibility for its actions, as J Boyle implied.
You can search for failed societies around the world but will not find them amongst those practising free market capitslism but only amongst those where the state rules the individual.

Interesting, so in both Britain and the US the state rules the individual does it?
As clearly, based solely on the musings posted here you understand, society has failed in both countries.
That seems slightly contary to the accepted view of the US as the land of the free and opportunity for the rugged individualist. Britian i’d probably agree with, you’re a bunch of spineless “victims” over there these days. 🙂

I’d say the american dream concept has been well and truely embraced by the British populance, i offer as evidence the prevalence of inane “reality” shows that supposedly gvie the ordinary person a chance at “celebrity,” whatever that is.

Oh, get off; it’s called jealousy and greed, and the desire for something without actually working for it.

Without jealousy and greed the capitalism concept doesn’t work 🙂
Noting what i suspect may be the introduction of a political aspect, allow me to state both sides of the political spectrum are only interested in two things, power or getting something at the expense of others.

I have told it as it is delete me if you must but you are just turning your back on the reality of life ife you do

The reality of life for you, where you live, paul, but not for tens of thousands of others. I don’t think it is fair to represent it as typical of the whole country.

Immigrants. This week I have had two instances of this.
1 The guy next door from Nigeria although asked nicely to move his car up a couple of feet so that I could get my car out of the drive got ****ty with me about it when I said perhaps you could park in your drive. The responce was the fence I put up between our houses might fall on his poxy mazda 6. This fence was errected 2 years ago by a builder to a high standard and is as solid as a rock. All his fences have fallen down(apart from the ones I am responsible for.(which have been immediately replaced if a panell goes) So as far as it goes now he can pi55 up a rope and stay the hell away from me!

2 The guy accross the road is a Pakistani and is forever on the cadge. Today he wanted to borrow a 18mil socket. I told him I did not have one. He then asked for a lift to the motor factors to get one despite seeing that I was in great pain from my legs and was having to hold onto my car for support. I told him sorry no. The reply was “F” you then!

So that is why we are down the pan letting people of a different culture into this country who seem to think we are at their beck and call and if we don’t like it we are the racists. This does not apply to them all by any means but we have our own subculture who are just as bad but being British we have to put up with them!

Notice despite extreme provercation I did not shortern Pakistani to what I wanted or call the Nigerian by Guy Gibsons dogs name!

I have told it as it is delete me if you must but you are just turning your back on the reality of life ife you do

The “American Dream” hasn’t been embraced anywhere in Europe except ironically by Germany after the war as it had become a “new” country. The depth of the entrenchment of the welfare state has destroyed the majority’s sense of responsibility for its actions, as J Boyle implied.
You can search for failed societies around the world but will not find them amongst those practising free market capitslism but only amongst those where the state rules the individual.

It’s called capitalism.

Oh, get off; it’s called jealousy and greed, and the desire for something without actually working for it.

Not being a UK citizen, but being married to one and having lived there allow me to make some general observations (that apply to my country as well)…

A huge part of the problem is people are behaving badly because no one expects/requires them to act properly.
In a welfare state no one has to take too much responsibility. If you mess up, don’t worry….you’ll always have your needs met.
Don’t work, have children you can’t or won’t support/do drugs/vandalism? …don’t worry, the government will fix everything for you.
You’ll also have a choirs of enablers telling you “it’s not your fault….”.

In short, a distressingly large part of society relies on the rest of society not because it HAS to (because of disability or genuine need) but because it’s easier to have society take care of you than for you to take care of yourself.

It’s called capitalism.
An older term is divide and conquor.
France and Spain haven’t embraced the American dream concept quite as gulliblely (for the moment!) as Britain has.

I never really knew a world where neighbors talked to neighbors and you could leave your door open etc.
I think those days were gone before I was born. I’m a child of the 80’s.
What I miss was happiness at work.
You used to turn up for work and as long as you did your hours, did your work and tried your best you were left alone.
People were not threatened constantly with redundancy, targets, performance, agile behaviors, `team` work.
You got on, had a laugh and then on a Friday went round the pub. I used to drink with my manager and colleagues alike.
You earned less, felt more secure and was happy. At least that was my life.
Now no one can talk to anyone without politics, in fact no one talks to you. If you don’t do 50 hours in a 37.5 hour day your not trying hard enough. If you don’t become a yes man your not a `team` player.
All because we want more shiny things than our neighbors.
What to look forward to in our old age? No pension and an overcrowded country.

I think you started a similar thread previously, but, yes to the last comment, added to which the whole idea of the family as a cohesive unit has been gradually eroded and once families break up communities follow.

Also the huge increase in peoples’ ability to travel easily and economically has exacerbated the “problem”. Nevertheless there are other developed nations where the sense of both family and community remains – France and Spain spring to mind, so it is to some extent a British problem.

When communities died ,when people started commuting and local stopped being local.Businesses that employed whole towns shutting down-think mining communities-railways etc.
When we lost respect for the law and stopped being being frightened of the consequences of being caught if you did anything wrong.