Downed Polish WWII pilot killed by civilians?

Newspaper article says ‘On Saturday’

Newspaper printed ‘Friday 6th Sept’

So Sat August 31st 1940 ?

And to be pedantic it actually says ‘Suburb’ of London not actually mentioning Dagenham.

So could be anywhere, but due to ‘detail’ in story may be local!

Bingo!

31.8.40 Spitfire I X4271 603 Sqn Hereford Road, Wanstead, Essex P/O G. K. Gilroy

http://www.thesoutheastecho.co.uk/Pilots/Gilroy.htm

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Great to hear from ‘forum stalwarts’ like Paul & Andy & thanks for your additional input Scouse !

I may RARELY post on here, but am always browsing.

RIGHT; ONE FACT = I do know of………

As this appears to be “one & the same” a/c (with Paul’s details & Andy’s extensive knowledge on digs) = I’m sure both of you ‘hardcore’ plane nuts will be among the 1st to agree that although this a/c may well have come down at Wanstead, the distance involved in the ‘seperation’ of Pilot & plane is noticable !!!!!!!!!!!!
The Pilot (assuming it’s Gilroy)…. MOST CERTAINLY came down in Dagenham !!!!!!!!!!!!!!

(I’m refering Paul, to your lifted quotes ‘pedantic’ & ‘could be anywhere’)

My Mum told me right from the start (late 1960’s) that she & other Dagenham residents had rushed to the scene where this ‘mobbing’ had occured………. near the (old, now long gone !) “Merry Fiddlers” roundabout in the centre of Dagenham, not too far from the Council Town Hall where my Dad used to work & very near to the actual scene of the V.1 incident some Four years later……..(12th July 1944).

It’s interesting to me that the rather large seperation in distance between X.4271 (if she’s the one) & Gilroy (assuming it’s him) landing at/next to the (then) busy “Merry Fiddlers” roundabout, is quite some distance & tho’ I don’t have the detail of the action you mention, I wonder if you guys would be good enough to explain at what kinda altitude P/O Gilroy & X.4271 parted company ????????? (I’m assuming it’s well over 18,000 ft ?)

Ironic that the actual Hospital mentioned in the link is the one & very same that I was born within :D:cool: (King George’s maternity ward).

Sadly, the dear ol’ King George V Hospital (on the Eastern Ave) has since been pulled down (sometime in the 1990’s)……I last went there in 1987 & spent a fortnight there:(.

Incidentally, I’m VERY suprised P/O Gilroy wasn’t taken to Oldchurch Hospital in Romford…….which WAS the other end of Wood Lane, not too far away.

As another (once) local ‘treat’ for me, it appears that Gilroy would’ve flown from my namesake that day, 603 Squadron having moved to Hornchurch only a few days earlier !

I’m glad now that I took the trouble to fish-out this newspaper (back in 1998) & would also like to thank the (then) curator at the Valence House museum with his enthusiasm & assistance.

Once again, many many thanks you guys Paul, Andy & Scouse for your input & thanks Paul for putting a “face” to the incident & I’m ASSUMING this is the ACTUAL same plane/pilot/incident……..my only misgiving being that P/O Gilroy went to King George V Hospital which is MUCH nearer to Wanstead flats, than the more obvious choice of the (old) Oldchurch Hospital in Waterloo Rd, Romford, which is was nr Rush Green = MUCH closer to the area in Dagenham where the incident took place & incidentally, also nearer to his 603/Hornchurch base.

(it’s coz Scouse mentioned TWO in his 3rd paragraph !)

p.s, I know of several 46 Sqdn/Stapleford Tawney Hurricane pilots who were admitted to Oldchurch during the conflict.

So, basically Andy/Paul, despite the geographical locations of the two Hospitals, you & Paul are 100% sure that P/O Gilroy “fits the bill” ?

The link Paul supplied seems that it is !

http://www.thesoutheastecho.co.uk/Pilots/Gilroy.htm

(still baffled by the Hospital choice, tho’ :D)

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Paul has nailed it!

In his excellent book on 603 Squadron David Ross gives a great deal of detail to this incident. Well worth the read.

The paper is dated Friday, September 6. If you blow up the image, the first paragraph can be seen to read:

‘The need for care and calmness when a lone parachutist is seen is emphasised by an incident in a suburb of London on Saturday…’

That would be August 31, it seems. Apparently the threatened pilot was one of two people who came down by parachute – the fate (or even nationality) of the other one is not stated.
The Battle of Britain Campaign Diary http://www.raf.mod.uk/bob1940/august31.html says that 37 RAF aircraft were lost that day, with 12 pilots killed or missing.

Newspaper article says ‘On Saturday’

Newspaper printed ‘Friday 6th Sept’

So Sat August 31st 1940 ?

And to be pedantic it actually says ‘Suburb’ of London not actually mentioning Dagenham. So could be anywhere, but due to ‘detail’ in story may be local!

Bingo!

31.8.40 Spitfire I X4271 603 Sqn Hereford Road, Wanstead, Essex P/O G. K. Gilroy

http://www.thesoutheastecho.co.uk/Pilots/Gilroy.htm

Fascinating story, Hornchurch.

Whilst we have the date of the newspaper, do we have any indication as to the date of the actual event? Was it the day before – ie 5 September? Or was it some time prior to that?

It would be interesting to put a name to the pilot!

Read a book recently that claimed a Polish (or perhaps Czech) pilot bailed out of his aircraft near Wapping in WWII and was beaten to death by people on the ground who mistook his accent for German.

Done a quick Google with no results,

and I suspect this is an urban myth.

Anyone have anything more?

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Well, ever since I was a kid, I’d always heard ‘urban myths’ involving my Mother & her personal wartime experiences in East London.

Having been bought up on the ‘usual’ diet of endless Airfix kits & Commando-comics, then into adulthood, I decided to check out these ‘myths’ (that had perpetuated) once & for all.

Turns out these were true…….& I managed to track down times, dates & place, amazingly enough !!!!!!!!!!!

The first (& most interesting to me) was when my Mother & her friend were out picnicing in a local field, then decided to walk home, instead of wait for the Bus as they usually did & were almost killed by a V.1 Flying-Bomb !!!!!!!!!!!
( 12th July 1944 )…… an interesting date in OUR family history.

It was whilst researching THAT incident that bought me to the “right place” to locate details of the other ‘mythical incident’ that I’d been told about over & over thru the years, previously with NO detail, other than an Airman being mobbed “down the road”.

It was whilst at Valence House, in Dagenham, Essex (during 1998) that the curator in the little museum & archive helped me to unearth these incidents with which I’d had such very minmal detail previously.

He was a fantastic help on the V.1 incident, but, unable to suggest any knowledge or info’ about the “mobbed pilot”.

So, as the “downed pilot” incident would’ve taken place in daylight, I obviously thought “pre-Barbarossa” & most likely Battle of Britain period……..so, scanned the main (archived) local rag of that time.

After about 25 minutes, I unearthed the following….. (picture below)

It’s ” The Dagenham Post ” dated Friday, September 6th 1940

As his parachute had draped over the wall of a sports-ground (in the suberb of Dagenham) upon landing, numerous folk started punching him (!) & the paper claims the pilot’s opening words were “Don’t shoot me, I’m British” (classic :D) which, if even 1/2 near the truth, insinuates that at least one of the mob would’ve been armed with a shotgun.

A Bus driver intervened (having seen him come down) & stepped in to persuade the assembled ‘mob’ to leave him alone.

Apologies & then explanations that they (crowd) were “infuriated by the indiscriminate Bombing of non-military targets” !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Now, that latter statement seems strange, given that this local-newspaper was ‘on sale’ on Fri 6th September, some weeks before the initial London Blitz, but, I’m reading the (very) fine print, as this was (at the time) a Broadsheet Newspaper !
(not the 1/2 sized Fish & Chip wrapper I remember from decades later :D)

OK, not Wapping & NO deaths or fatalities, but, intersting nonetheless.

For me, it was ‘closure’ on a previously unsubstantiated myth.

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It seems that Nicolson was shot at by a party of Royal Engineers with .303 rifles. Luckily they missed. The local Home Guard had only .300 rifles in that area and empty cases were later collected (303s) from where the REs were firing. I think the shotgun story is a myth – although he WAS shot at from the ground. The peppering in his legs and buttocks (evident in his shoe, tunic, shirt and Mae West) was most likely from exploding 20mm German cannon shells.

I should also add that the likelihood of injury from shotgun pellets fired at a descending parachutist, and to have caused such a close “cluster” of peppering wounds, is most unlikely unless he was shot at at very close range – which he wasn’t! The spread of pellets at that sort of range would have very likely meant that one pellet hit would have been unlikely and that would probably only have stung (at the most!) and not penetrated clothing, skin and flesh!

I understand that JB Nicholson was shot while under his parachute after the action in which he won Fighter Command’s only VC of the war – by a member of the Home Guard who fortunately was only armed with a shotgun.

So I wouldn’t say that the story of the Polish airman is impossible, but I very much doubt it would have been recorded.

… having taken the look of priests…

No no, it was Nuns! Apparently to be identified by hairy knees. :rolleyes:

Well, if you read Dr. Price’s Hardest Day, there are several accounts by RAF pilots who bailed out or even belly landed about them having to prove to very “excited” Home Guard members or even armed local farmers that they were RAF pilots despite there uniform showing that… So one can easy imagine that a polish pilot may have succombed to that. Specially when a rumor is going around that german parachutists invaders are spreading out after a raid, having taken the look of priests…

Some interesting specific alleged cases of Luftwaffe aircrew and a Great War airship crew!

http://www.cfww2.com/forums/showthread.php?1183-German-bomber-pilot-lynched

http://www.thisiskent.co.uk/news/Day-local-teen-saved-enemy-pilot/article-2670655-detail/article.html

Not exactly on topic, but interesting, I think.

A general observation is that the Czech / Pole story sounds like a reverse creation from the episode in the Battle of Britain film, so well known here.

HTH

Hi
records can be buried, but there are sometimes eyewitnesses.

I was once told in the 70’s about a luftwaffe aircraft crash, apparently certain people rushed over to the crash to hang the aircrew, but on arrival at the crash site, the german aircrew were found to have been killed in the crash.
sometimes all myths are not myths.
cheers
Jerry

It might well be true, however I doubt that you will get any real answers due to ‘victors history’. Many RAF aircrew were killed after to bailing out over Axis held territory and this is well documented, however any accounts of this happening over here will have been quickly and permanently buried a long, long time ago.

A similar question that i asked a few months back……

http://forum.keypublishing.com/showthread.php?t=90685