Dream: RAF VC10 return to civil life…

Fastest Subsonic Airliner

Has anybody considered the Boeing 720B which Boeing marketed to hit the CV-990 market….I’ve just flipped through John Stroud’s JETLINERS (in Service from 1952)….full of techie details…. and he was lucky enough to ride on the record-breaking PIA delivery flight of their first 720B London-Beirut-Karachi recording Mach nos 0.86-0.89 averaging 665 mph (they had a 100knot tailwind later on)…if there are no 720Bs still flying maybe Travolta’s 707-138B is a candidate, heavier structure than the 720B but almost identical aerodynamically.
(Stroud also records a London Munich flight in a BEA Trident 1 doing Mach 0.865)

Four decades! In fact coming up for 45 years service, I just can’t see anyonne having two VC-10s at the same site.
They do deserve a good retirement though.

Almost two decades of continuous operational flying the the Gulf region.;)

whats the out of service date for the tristar?

2015 or 16 IIRC (I’ll happily be corrected) – a year or two after the last VC10.

whats the out of service date for the tristar?

Well, Duxford is the Imperial War Museum, and the VC10 fleet has been permanently on operations for nearly two decades.;)

I suspect you are right though, one will go to Cosford, and I suspect that’ll be it.

Four decades! In fact coming up for 45 years service, I just can’t see anyonne having two VC-10s at the same site.
They do deserve a good retirement though.

re Duxford, I didn’t catch on about the VC-10 getting in and staying there, I can’t see why the place would want an ex RAF one when they already have their lovely BOAC liveried example.

Well, Duxford is the Imperial War Museum, and the VC10 fleet has been permanently on operations for nearly two decades.;)

I suspect you are right though, one will go to Cosford, and I suspect that’ll be it.

When I was working in Kenya many moons ago, there was a story that a certain East African Airways captain (who is still around, so I won’t name him) was taking delivery of what I think was the last VC-10 to be built. In the spirit of little lads asking a Ferrari driver “What’ll she do”, aforesaid captain, with the reluctant agreement of the BAC test crew, proceded to find out. The rumour was that a suspicious noise was heard along the South Coast and an indicated Mach No nudging up to 1.00. Always good for a discussion over a Tusker in the East African Aero Club bar.

People are missing the sub-text here, it is alledged that the VC-10 is the fastest airliner flying now, not in its day.
The 990/Coronado was the fastest non supersonic airliner, but none are flying now with NASAs example being retired.

I have never understood the VC10 to be particularly fast, in its hayday the BOAC/BA advertising always played on the quitness of the cabin, which it was unless you were at the back.
In fact its operating costs and performance were considered a handicap as it was designed for the African routes where runway length and temperature were the driving factors. This detracted from its ability to cruise as efficiently as a DC8/707 when being used on the transatlantic routes.
The Trident and CV990 were the fastest things on the block.
I have spent many a happy hour on VC10’s in the circuit at places such as RAE Bedford, Glasgow and Prestwick, when I was a lad, just along for the ride on a training flights, the best place to be was in the jump seat but if that was unavailable we used to just stand in the flight deck doorway, our feet would leave the ground at top of climb out if the driver nosed over a bit quickly, and trying to use the loo was entertaining.
Richard

Re the fastest airliner business, I was under the impression that the VC-10 has the highest maximum design speed of any ‘airliner’ flying, now that Concorde and the Convair jet liners are grounded.
However its actual in use cruising speed is lower than some of the other airliner types that are flying.
Its all a bit pub quizy for me as the VC-10 isn’t a true airliner now anyhow – just sounds good!

re Duxford, I didn’t catch on about the VC-10 getting in and staying there, I can’t see why the place would want an ex RAF one when they already have their lovely BOAC liveried example. I was underr the impression (not sure from where) that Cosford have a VC-10, Nimrod, and Hercules all earmarked for preservation there.

As an aircraftspotter the VC-10 brings back some good memories.

Going to RAF Bruggen in the 90s to watch the Tornadoes, I always made sure I went on a thuesday, that was the day in the week you were sure to catch a VC-10.

Also I remember being bored by one at RAF Wildenrath. It was doing circuits for 1,5 hour.
That were a lot touch ‘n goes!! Taken in mind that I was there to see the last 19 & 92 sq F-4’s.

And then there was the sad sight of the derelict ones at RAF Abingdon when I was at a spottingtrip round the UK.

I considder myself a lucky man to have seen the bulk of the RAF ones alive!!

It seem that a speed record exist with a SWISSAIR CORONADO ?

Wasn’t the Convair 990 a tad faster? Or did the Kucheman carrots just make it seem that way?

That clears up my misunderstanding then. Thanks for that.

Oh, I was under the impression that the only thing they were doing now was the tanker role and flying late night circuits and bumps to annoy the residents of Carterton.:D

Still do all the same as they did before, just under the one (101) Sqn numberplate, and ever (slowly) decreasing number of aeroplanes.:)

Still carrying plenty of passengers on a weekly basis.:)

Probably could, but as you know St Athan’s tight, and Duxford’s 1000ft shorter.

Oh, I was under the impression that the only thing they were doing now was the tanker role and flying late night circuits and bumps to annoy the residents of Carterton.:D

I think it may be a bit of an urban myth that nothing else could touch the VC10 for speed. As I understand it the first widebody jets, and indeed earlier US jet transports like the 707, were actually designed to be able to cruise faster than they usually did in service. The slower speeds generally adopted from the 1970s on were for fuel economy reasons rather than performance limitations. I certainly recall hearing 747s on the North Atlantic reporting cruise speeds at M=0.86 and even on one occasion I think 0.88. In my 1992 edition of “Flying the Big Jets”, the author (Stanley Stewart, at the time a BA B747 captain) states that the 747’s maximum speed is 0.90 Mach. If this is its certified maximum, I assume there is also some margin above this which it could actually attain.

You’re quite right, the 747 does/can cruise faster than the VC10 does routinely, and appears to have a lower Mne of M0.92 (the ’10 being M0.94). The VC10 certainly is capable of these Mach no’s, but with fuel efficiency at a premium, M0.84 indicated is the norm.

The runway at DX hasn’t been long enought since the M11 was built. Even something as samll as the Sea Vixen is not really happy there now.
Believe it or not, now that the Tu-144 and Concorde are out of airliner service there would still be no airliner faster if they put the 10 back into airline service. IIRC a cruise speed of something like M 0.89 against about 0.82 for the fastest of the modern stuff.

I think it may be a bit of an urban myth that nothing else could touch the VC10 for speed. As I understand it the first widebody jets, and indeed earlier US jet transports like the 707, were actually designed to be able to cruise faster than they usually did in service. The slower speeds generally adopted from the 1970s on were for fuel economy reasons rather than performance limitations. I certainly recall hearing 747s on the North Atlantic reporting cruise speeds at M=0.86 and even on one occasion I think 0.88. In my 1992 edition of “Flying the Big Jets”, the author (Stanley Stewart, at the time a BA B747 captain) states that the 747’s maximum speed is 0.90 Mach. If this is its certified maximum, I assume there is also some margin above this which it could actually attain.

Well i’m certain one could get into Dx, but whether it could get out again is another matter. But who cares.. at least it would mean one RAF example was preserved.

A FlyPast article last year stated that one was earmarked for preservation; one presumes at Cosford.

Flying VISCOUNT

It would be great to see a flying Viscount again !

Just another dream ?

Vickers Viscount Arlanda airport

Well i’m certain one could get into Dx, but whether it could get out again is another matter. But who cares.. at least it would mean one RAF example was preserved.

As regards flying examples of the Vanguard / Viscount, no Vanguards i’m afraid but there is at least one Viscount still flying in Africa i believe.. at least it was two or three years ago.