DTD 314S marking on Spitfire IX on

To Happymeal

Bertrand, peux-tu m’envoyer PM ou email ?

hgtbATnetcourrier.com

Bertrand, peux-tu m’envoyer PM ou email ?

. When Ian Blair was flying those Mk VIIs I think they were still in the markings of the former users, the Czechs of 312 Sqd. Ian gave me photos of these many years ago. Mark

Hello Mark – thanks for everything, as you can see yourself Bertrand is very pleased with the help given to him today. 🙂 You are correct about the VII’s – I have two very clear photos of VII DU-G (nominally in the markings of 312 Czech squadron, but actually Skeabrae station flight) MD114 at Skeabrae in my 602 squadron “chapter”. 🙂 Grateful if you can PM me the e-mail address of Vasco Barbic – cheers – Allan

341 Alsace

What an excellent start for 2005 ! That’s a bit thick ! Many, many thanks to Allan to let my request on this forum and for the help of these generous contributors. I could have very precise captions for my future works on Squadron 341 “Alsace”.

**Serious research in to 341 Sqd eh?.**

I think. More 6 years of researches, 30+ logbooks crossed with F541 and other files. I think in 2006 I will be near the end of my book with the pedigrees of 330+ Spit and biographies of 100+ pilots of Alsace.

MJ772 NLW used by 341 between 28/01/1944 up to 18/06/944
TB252 NLJ used by 341 between 15 march 1945 up to VE day. Last ops flight on 28 april 1945.
ML407 NLD: the very known Spit of Carolyn. Four ops flights between 29/12/44 up to 01/01/45

Thanks at all and I wish you a great year for 2005

Very sincerely from Burgundy

Bertrand

Hi Mark – many thanks – I will pass that on to Bertrand – would you by any chance be able to answer his other questions on “The Spitfire and its nose- Part 2 “The explanation for every hole and bulge” – Do you know someone who could a copy of this article and for the part 1” – I believe he is also correct in his translation of DTD as “Director of Technical Development” M&S makes reference to “Air Commodore R H Verney, the DTD” and I haven’t checked my other Spitfire resources to see if it gives another explanation of the initials. I have also been helping Bertrand out with his research into 341 (Alsace) squadron – who strangely enough are possibly part of the equation about a blanked out 602 squadron “Lion Rampant”. 🙂 411 (RCAF) squadron gave up it’s VB’s at Biggin Hill in October ’43 to 341 squadron in exchange for their IXB’s, the VB’s were flown to Perranporth by 341 squadron, where they were exchanged with 453 (RAAF) squadron for their VB/VC’s, and then flown by 453 to Skeabrae. These were the ones that were taken over in January ’44 by 602 squadron and referred to as “Clipped, Clapped and Cropped” in their ORB. In fact when 453 flew the “old” 411 VB’s to Skeabrae they were still in the markings of 411 squadron. By the way, three VII’s were flown by 453 at Skeabrae, presumably one being MD114 later used by 602’s Ian Blair. Delays in recording changes on the AM78 showed the change from 341 to 453 as taking place on 3 November, over two weeks after it actually happened. 🙂 isn’t accurate research fun !! 🙂 – cheers – Allan

Allan,

Directorate of Technical Development:

Well close, and it did have Directorate in it. 🙂

Vasco Barbic wrote the article that you refer to. I could PM his email address if you would like it.

When Ian Blair was flying those Mk VIIs I think they were still in the markings of the former users, the Czechs of 312 Sqd. Ian gave me photos of these many years ago.

Hmm! Serious research in to 341 Sqd eh?. Do please keep a look out for survivors MJ772 NL-W, ML407 NL-D and TB252.

Mark

Thanks Jeepman – I will also pass that on to Bertrand. 🙂

DTD Specs

DTD = Air Ministry’s Directorate of Technical Development

DTD308 was the specification for a cellulose based material consisting of a pigmented primer suitable for direct application to metal or timber and a pigmented cellulose finishing coating suitable for application over the primer – by brush or spray. Temperate and tropical types were available

DTD314 was the specification for a synthetic finishing material consisting of a pigmented primer suitable for direct application to metal or timber and a pigmented synthetic finishing coating suitable for application over the primer – by brush or spray.

DTD308 was underscored with a “C”
DTD314 was underscrored with an “S”, as outlined in Mark 12’s response, to ensure that when refinishing the wrong paint wasn’t used. Hands up who’s been there – spraying celly over sythetic to get a luverly crackle finish and then having to go back to square one (ie bare metal). 🙁

Specification was stencilled in 1″ high letters – in black on most colours but in red on Night painted areas.

The best source of explanation of these and other DTD finish codes is the series of booklets on RAF Colours written by Paul Lucas from which I blagged this explanation.

Wasn’t there an explanation of Spitfire IX noses in Air Enthusiast a while back which might also be of some assistance

DTD 314S

Hi Mark – many thanks – I will pass that on to Bertrand – would you by any chance be able to answer his other questions on “The Spitfire and its nose- Part 2 “The explanation for every hole and bulge” – Do you know someone who could a copy of this article and for the part 1” – I believe he is also correct in his translation of DTD as “Director of Technical Development” M&S makes reference to “Air Commodore R H Verney, the DTD” and I haven’t checked my other Spitfire resources to see if it gives another explanation of the initials. I have also been helping Bertrand out with his research into 341 (Alsace) squadron – who strangely enough are possibly part of the equation about a blanked out 602 squadron “Lion Rampant”. 🙂 411 (RCAF) squadron gave up it’s VB’s at Biggin Hill in October ’43 to 341 squadron in exchange for their IXB’s, the VB’s were flown to Perranporth by 341 squadron, where they were exchanged with 453 (RAAF) squadron for their VB/VC’s, and then flown by 453 to Skeabrae. These were the ones that were taken over in January ’44 by 602 squadron and referred to as “Clipped, Clapped and Cropped” in their ORB. In fact when 453 flew the “old” 411 VB’s to Skeabrae they were still in the markings of 411 squadron. By the way, three VII’s were flown by 453 at Skeabrae, presumably one being MD114 later used by 602’s Ian Blair. Delays in recording changes on the AM78 showed the change from 341 to 453 as taking place on 3 November, over two weeks after it actually happened. 🙂 isn’t accurate research fun !! 🙂 – cheers – Allan

It is the paint Specification number, not the colour.

The ‘S’ is the code for ‘Synthetic’.

Sometimes you will see ‘C’ for Cellulose.

Actually I think DTD stands for ‘Department of Technical Directorate’ or very similar. I will check – Directorate is in there somewhere. 🙂

mark