Dug up last night !

BTW by comparing known histories of in Late May 1944

NH265 NH307 MK574 EN579 MK991 MH727

We have:

NH265 and NH307 and EN579 at 39MU

MK991 storage/repair after a B incident on 6th May then to VAO

MK574 at 6MU – > the 403 Sqn

MH727 somewhere between 317Sq and then Air Services Training (assume for repair)

Paul

So that’s 3 defiantly at 39 MU, MK991 ‘in storage after repair’ ( could be 1CRU Cowley) then to Starveall farm,
MK574 at 6 MU. Which was Brize Norton, less than 10 miles from Starveall farm…………

Is there a pattern here ?

Jules

I don’t have an exact date, but 83 GSU were seemingly at Bognor by 21 June.

Just checked my copies of 83 GSU ORB while at readhill and seems to stop end of May 44, as I said I only copied off pages relating to RAF Redhill so either they moved after this date or I am missing a page! States on back photo taken 7th June 44.

BTW by comparing known histories of in Late May 1944

NH265 NH307 MK574 EN579 MK991 MH727

We have:

NH265 and NH307 and EN579 at 39MU

MK991 storage/repair after a B incident on 6th May then to VAO

MK574 at 6MU – > the 403 Sqn

MH727 somewhere between 317Sq and then Air Services Training (assume for repair)

Paul

thanks Paul

sadly that does not give me anymore info, apart from if any of the serials can be read and again matched to 39 MU ?

Image here. Sorry about Scan quality

[ATTACH=CONFIG]236812[/ATTACH]

Paul
could you post the other picture ? CH13318, I can’t find it, if there is any background, it may help.

Jules

The picture is on page 110 of TAF Vol 1 with following comment

“LEFT: 83 Group Support Unit staff preparing Spitfire IXs at Redhill, in late May 1944, for issue to front line squadrons.
The two Spitfires in the front row had both come from 39 MU, Coleme, and would be issued to 403 Squadron (NH265)
and 411 Squadron (NH307) The history of the aircraft behind on the right, MK574, remains obscure. (IWM CH13317)”

However, there is another photo on the same page below it says

“ABOVE: Armourers preparing belts of 20 mm ammunition at 83 GSU, Redhill, late in May 1944. Spitfire IXs EN579 ‘OB-S’ (ex 411 Squadron),
MK991 ‘US-K’ (ex-56 Squadron) and MH727 ‘AH-(?l’ (ex-332 Squadron) await repair or reissue alongside new Spitfires from Maintenance Units
Surviving aircraft movement records do not contain detail of allocations within 2nd TAF during the first half of 1944, so none of these aircraft are
recorded as being at 83 GSU and MH727’s allocation to 332 Squadron is also missing. (IWM CH13319)”

I assume the photo’s were taken at same time and at IWM I wonder what is on IWM CH13318

I can read the following serials NH265 MK574

Hi Andy, I have copies of the 83 group records (only their time at Redhill) I will check, from memory does not mention vehicles, a friend of the family (Jack Hodges) was there at Redhill with 83 group and he said they flew Typhoons to test radios and rocket systems which I assume were fitted at Redhill, they were then delivered to the squadrons, he did say they were bringing back Hurricanes, which were broken up at Redhill, these ended up on a scrap yard down the road (now completely built over) I spoke to one local gentleman who remembered them towing a Hurricane down the country lanes to this scrap yard (with the wings removed) so all this info seems to fit.

I actually have an original press photo of this very image it says the following on the back in blue ink…

British Official Photograph CH. 13317.XF
Air Ministry Photograph
Crown Copyright Reserved
At a tatical Air Force Station in Britain.

Picture taken at the headquarters of a unit of the Second Tactical Air Force in Britain. The 2nd Tactical Air Force is now supporting the Allied Armies of Liberation landing in France. (June 7th 1944).

Photo shows: Masses of fighter aircraft collected at a group support unit of the AEAF and hundreds of RAF vehicles assebled at a forward Repair Unit on the same airfield. Mechanics in the foreground are getting a fighter ready for future operations.

Hope this helps

The picture is on page 110 of TAF Vol 1 with following comment

“LEFT: 83 Group Support Unit staff preparing Spitfire IXs at Redhill, in late May 1944, for issue to front line squadrons.
The two Spitfires in the front row had both come from 39 MU, Coleme, and would be issued to 403 Squadron (NH265)
and 411 Squadron (NH307) The history of the aircraft behind on the right, MK574, remains obscure. (IWM CH13317)”

However, there is another photo on the same page below it says

“ABOVE: Armourers preparing belts of 20 mm ammunition at 83 GSU, Redhill, late in May 1944. Spitfire IXs EN579 ‘OB-S’ (ex 411 Squadron),
MK991 ‘US-K’ (ex-56 Squadron) and MH727 ‘AH-(?l’ (ex-332 Squadron) await repair or reissue alongside new Spitfires from Maintenance Units
Surviving aircraft movement records do not contain detail of allocations within 2nd TAF during the first half of 1944, so none of these aircraft are
recorded as being at 83 GSU and MH727’s allocation to 332 Squadron is also missing. (IWM CH13319)”

I assume the photo’s were taken at same time and at IWM I wonder what is on IWM CH13318

Would be good to solve it!

Certainly, if the s/n of the Spits in view tie it to 83 GSU then that is a strong indicator and, presumably, the timelines would indicate Redhill even although 83 GSU were at other locations.

I haven’t checked, but if the a/c also went through 39 MU then maybe the location suggested by Dawnpatrol would work?

Not doubting Mark 12 or my old pal Chris Thomas, by any means, but would be nice to be absolutely sure on this before captioning the photograph for the magazine!

‘Chalky’ White of Acebell Aviation at Redhill, who probably knows Redhill better than many, was adamant that it didn’t tie into any landscape he knew around Redhill. And Dawnpatrol thinks he has tied the location to the 39 MU site. I am thus a little perplexed.

And maybe the large collection of vehicles might be more indicative of an MU than 83 Group Support Unit? The latter, surely, were involved in the supply chain of aircraft to 2nd TAF. Or did they cover vehicles, too? (although I base those remarks on no more than an assumption/theory!)

Thoughts, anyone?

It’s close to landscape seen at RAF Redhill but the bounderies and hills in the background do not really tie in with Redhill although 83 group did form there I believe and were very active especially with Typhoons. I wish there were finds like that at Redhill!!.

Hi Mark 12

I’d be the last to query Chris Thomas, but this has variously been described as Pagham, Horne and Redhill. As regards to the latter, I am told by those who know the place well that there is nothing in the topography that matches anything around there to this image. Maybe Redhill Wings could comment? As to it being the location suggested by Dawnpatrol, the imagery I have seen is quite convincing – and he has had the opportunity to match things up on the ground.

Totally agree, fantastic finds tdp. Wonder what you’ll come up with Next!?

Rob

Oh now is that a cracking find or what !! gorgeous and to know what aircraft to boot

[ATTACH=CONFIG]236803[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]236801[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]236802[/ATTACH][ATTACH=CONFIG]236803[/ATTACH]Though I found this at the same site, it was in the 1980’s but never ‘shared’ it before.

Totally original, grey / green cammo paint (I did lacquer it) and of course K9979 ………..

A stainless steel ‘butterfly’ is indicative of an early Spitfire in my experience.

Mark

Yes, I guess it must be early as it’s got no holes drilled for the loop pull, so the canopy could be puled with one hand.

Jules

A stainless steel ‘butterfly’ is indicative of an early Spitfire in my experience.

Mark

Camera on a pole maybe? Like a selfie stick only larger.

I once – and this is one of my favourite wedding photo memories – spoke the words:

“Umm…excuse me but, err, could I please borrow your Spitfire for a few minutes?”

And he let me.

Love the look of that item, it just looks like something really tangible.

Hi Mark 12

I’d be the last to query Chris Thomas, but this has variously been described as Pagham, Horne and Redhill. As regards to the latter, I am told by those who know the place well that there is nothing in the topography that matches anything around there to this image. Maybe Redhill Wings could comment? As to it being the location suggested by Dawnpatrol, the imagery I have seen is quite convincing – and he has had the opportunity to match things up on the ground.

It is 83 Group Support Unit.

I have this from Chris Thomas……Mr 2nd TAF.

I am away from my files but from memory that is Redhill.

Mark

PS. This is a crop from a larger image that shows the RAF serial of nearest Spitfire. This serial read in conjunction with the other serial visible establishes the time line through the respective movement cards.

Aircraft being prepared to be ferried to Europe.

There is a full caption in Chris Thomas’s four volume book 2nd TAF.