Dutch MP allowed into the UK. Your views.

SNIPPED….
Honestly – sometimes I despair – it certainly shows that some people do not actually understand that with rights come responsibilities. A big problem in society today is that people don’t understand that.

This is bang on. The judgement of somebody being responsible also crosses the very right to be free.
Example, when the thieving gypo(1) tinkers set up their site in a field 4 miles from me, I wanted to march down the road with a banner saying “Run the Pikey chav travellers out of town.” A posse would soon have joined me as nobody wants them in their town. I have the right to do that, but I’m responsible enough not to do it. And, those pikey types are big hard basads with fists like a suitcase and no law they care about to answer!
We got the usual Court order and 5 day wait. They moved on to bother other townsfolk, and left our hamlet with some unsolved thefts (It may well have been opportunists from locally, knowing the pikey’s would get the blame – however the affect of them setting up camp brings the opportunity).

(1) Gypo is the modern derogatory name used for the travelling tinkers. It is not meant to be derogatory towards the Romany people/ Egyptian descent known as Gypsy, who are in general a law abiding honest race.

Harriet Harman is married to a leftist a trade-unionist who is probably going to be parachuted into a safe labour seat.

You think there are still some “safe seats” left?

They should be made to stand at their home residence constituancy…… That would stop all these houses 300 miles away from their seat.

“…this is the UK under New Labour…”

Its not the hate crime thing I’m on about, and your missing my point.
Which is that new labour, having already dismantled freedom, are very subtle in what they do and how they do it.
One reason for allowing mass immigration is that those who come here will vote labour, thus keeping them in power.
You want some history lessons?
ok then –
New Labour have “won” the last 3 elections and yet a minority of the population have voted each time…thats hardly a mandate.
As to my view that they are a bunch of power-seeking self-serving goons, look at thier histories; Alistair Darling may look and sound like a sober-suited gentleman, but what was he 20 years ago?…he was a soviet-style commie.
Harriet Harman is married to a leftist a trade-unionist who is probably going to be parachuted into a safe labour seat. Alan Johnson – leftist trade unionist.
Need I go on?….and if you dont believe me, do what I did – go look them up and read about them (unless your old enough to have lived back then in which case you should know this already).

and no the tories havent ever got everything right either.

of course certain parties and/or people will be banned…..this is the UK under New Labour, the most oppressive and eveil movement that ever conned its way to power…and they will do anything to keep it.

Actually you may find that inciting racial hatred was introduced in the Public Order Act of 1986 – which (by my admittedly dubious mathematics) preceded the election of “New Labour” by approximately 6 years. And this is (in the main) what this debate is about.

You may find that this is one of the reasons why party political broadcasts are bleeped as broadcasters do not want to find themselves on the wrong end of the Public Order Act (introduced by the Conservatives if that wasn’t clear enough.)

In a previous life I used to be involved in sorting out the after effects of crime and that also involved dealing with the aftermath of racially motivated crime. I’m not sure whether the people I was involved with would have been soothed in anyway with the response that Yes it was terrible your house was defaced with graffiti but it’s only criminal damage as the racially motivated phrases are actually free speech. Don’t you realise people died for the right for them to do that to you?

Honestly – sometimes I despair – it certainly shows that some people do not actually understand that with rights come responsibilities. A big problem in society today is that people don’t understand that.

I support all you have said.
But. I am white, hetrosexual and approve of the Gulf wars. If I marched the streets with such banners I would be banged up for incitement.

Nahhh…….you’d be a minority and as such would be eligible for a grant 😀

My diplomacy skills have been compared to a Panzer division, which is a very high award!

Better to be direct than a mealy-mouthed traitorous Quisling who hides his beliefs in an attempt to fool some of the people long enough to get elected. 🙂

Not in this country, you wouldn’t.

It might be a different matter if you wrote the banners, mind. :diablo:

I don’t get that. Are you suggesting that I may speak the word of the silent majority? My diplomacy skills have been compared to a Panzer division, which is a very high award!

I support all you have said.
But. I am white, hetrosexual and approve of the Gulf wars. If I marched the streets with such banners I would be banged up for incitement.

Not in this country, you wouldn’t.

It might be a different matter if you wrote the banners, mind. :diablo:

of course certain parties and/or people will be banned…..this is the UK under New Labour, the most oppressive and eveil movement that ever conned its way to power…and they will do anything to keep it.

Personally I regard the BNP and this dutch guy with complete distaste.

But as much as I disagree with them and what they stand for, I will defend thier right to say it.
The protesters who waved thier banners etc at British soldiers I also regard with distaste.
But I would still defend thier right to hold and express thier views, now matter how much I disagree with them.

I support all you have said.
But. I am white, hetrosexual and approve of the Gulf wars. If I marched the streets with such banners I would be banged up for incitement. Such is free speech in the UK. Our Grand/Fathers died for this shower in power (All of them – not just the quivver lipped idiot and his gang), makes me ashamed.

of course certain parties and/or people will be banned…..this is the UK under New Labour, the most oppressive and eveil movement that ever conned its way to power…and they will do anything to keep it.

Personally I regard the BNP and this dutch guy with complete distaste.

But as much as I disagree with them and what they stand for, I will defend thier right to say it.
The protesters who waved thier banners etc at British soldiers I also regard with distaste.
But I would still defend thier right to hold and express thier views, now matter how much I disagree with them.

And before you ask, No I am not a member of them and think the day they ever got in power would be a dark day for the UK, I just thought it seemed to be against the democratic process in not allowing them to get their points over as other parties were allowed to, no matter how odious it is to me personally..

Exactly.
Back in the late 70s a neo-Nazi group (or at least guys who thought they looked cool in 30’s-era brown Nazi costimes) wanted to march outside of Chicago…in a suburb with a large Jewish and holocaust survivor population. Aside from monstrous bad taste, the event became an important legal precident (as well as inspiration for a scene in The Blues Brothers).

The group sued and the courts said thay had the right to make their opinions heard.

One group can’t have free speech without everyone having similiar freedoms.
If a government has the right to pick and choose who to let have freedoms, is sets a very bad precident…even if it means letting groups you don’t agree with have their opinions heard.

Interestingly this actually reminds me in ways of another similar case that at the time I thought was wrong…..

At the last elections the National Front had a party political broadcast and it was heavily censored with a lot of bleeped out sections.

I thought at the time, who made that decision?

I always had thought that Party Political broadcasts were or should be just that, and none censored so as to allow the parties involved to get their message across to the voters no matter how distastful or disagreeable, be it Labour, Conservative, Liberal, BNP, monster raving looney party or whoever, it was then up to the voters of this country to decide who to vote for based on what they were putting across, to censor a Party Political Broadcast was and is breaking their democratic rights to put forth their case to be elected and could be seen as Biasing one of the main parties that were not censured as such…..

And before you ask, No I am not a member of them and think the day they ever got in power would be a dark day for the UK, I just thought it seemed to be against the democratic process in not allowing them to get their points over as other parties were allowed to, no matter how odious it is to me personally..

So this guy won his case, but doesn’t the UK still have a list of others it has banned for speech issues?

There is a radio talk show guy here that is on the list for having said something uncomplimentary about Islam.
He doesn’t have a criminal record and has not advocated violence.

Unlike terror suspects or those thought to have ties (financial/organizational) to terror organizations, all this guy has done is say something stupid on the radio.

Seems a bit inconsistent for a democracy.

Then again, in Germany they don’t allow Nazi emblems despite the “free speech” concerns.

Even closely sounding made up ones;)……..

When you find me using real-life foul language (like the abusive term that I’ve removed from two posts by the same member today), then you can start pulling me up on it.

Swearing isn’t big, and it’s not clever.

It is, however, a clear breach of the site owners’ Code of Conduct and will continue to be treated as such.

Can you please stop showing your ignorance. Lance was clearly referring to a fairly rare species of bird which lives in the hedgerows of the Southern part of North Yorkshire. The twunt is a small bird with pale plumage and got its name from the sound of its call which bears an uncommon resemblance to the phrase ‘twunt do that if ar were thee.’ The utter twunt is an even rarer sub species of this bird found (rarely) in the countryside around Doncaster which was, Centuries ago, referred to as uttershire. Of course, this is not to be confused with a species of migratory water fowl found in the area and called utter twaddle.

Regards,

kev35

Free speech is a right that many good people gave up their all for. Even if we disagree, or find their views odious, they have a right, surely, to free speech? Equally, others have the freedom to agree or disagree, argue, debate….or just walk away and not listen. However, I could not help noticing the vociferous demonstrators outside waving banners saying “Islam Rules” and “Islam Will Take Over the World” and “Christianity and Judaism is the Personification of Evil”. Is it just me, or are these people exercising THEIR right to free speech and expression as well? And would it not be the case that if others demonstrated outside a mosque, for example, where a radical cleric was freely spouting his hatred and waved banners saying “Islam was Evil” or “Christianity Will Rule The World” then would not those people be dispersed or arrested for stirring up racial or religious hatred? (Not to mention the odd fatwah, of course!) Funny, but it is a rule that only works one way.

Even closely sounding made up ones;)……..

Ahaaaa “Hoisted by his own petard!!”

Denis, that’s it now. One up on the mods. It’s like getting away from the cops, harrassment until you fall LoL.

🙂

Can I just remind you all that the use of offensive language and swearwords is not permitted in these forums?

Thanks

GA

Even closely sounding made up ones;)……..

the right to make themselves look like an utter twunt. Even Dutch MPs.

Moderator Message

Can I just remind you all that the use of offensive language and swearwords is not permitted in these forums?

Thanks

GA

It is a pity that threads ‘vanish’ so quickly on the General Discussion forum as I seem to remember quite a few of us being up-in-arms when there was that protest against British troops in Luton…

…weren’t those protesters exercising their right to free speech?

I think our concept of ‘free speech’ depends very much on our opinion of those exercising it. :diablo:

It’s always worth fighting for the right for anybody to have free speech. But sometimes the people that gain from it take the pi55 and show great disrespect. Fair enough, they equally have the right to be thick and wrong.