DUXFORD A BLOODY DISGRACE

Subscribing to The British Veterans Recognition Card costs £27.50 for the first year (£15 joining fee and £12.50 annual subscription). To continue membership for the second and subsequent years costs the annual subscription fee of £12.50.

For those over the age of 65 years, who wish to belong to the scheme, we will waive half the initial joining fee of £15.

Excellent value. About the cost (or for 65+, half…) of a DX show ticket. It’s a funny old world.

So what your saying its my fault for not checking with Duxford , and So you think it’s ok for one of the Largest airshows in the Uk, not to supply a marquee for ex veterans, Only the ones with Gold or Platinum tickets.

Its not about your fault for checking or not, its more about your fault for assuming that these men could get something for nothing in this dog-eat-dog society run by slavering hoards of bean counters all demanding that everything should be made to pay its way. Much as I would love to see veterans getting a dedicated space at shows most shows are presumably running at a low profit margin (except the takings from the usually vastly inflated food concessions) and thats why marquees are annoyingly positioned on the prime centre line positions, for those who pay for such gold or platinum tickets as might be available. I’d look forward to any official response to the suggestion that one of their potential big money spinners should instead be turned over in the name of charity (small ‘c’) for pensioner-veterans to use. Maybe it could be done but sponsored by a company (the Flypast Veterans Marquee?;)), just think of the goodwill and kudos involved. – Nermal

Excellent answers Damien, I stand corrected.

First I’d like to say that I’m truly sorry that Rob and his friends had a bad experience. I’m afraid that the rest of this discussion is mostly unviable.

Good for Dunsfold. Care to elabourate? Other events?

My friend Fujiyama Tokyo.:D OK, it’s a theoretical point. The principle stands.

What percentage of veterans have such a card? And how many from W.W.II wish to be identified? I’ve stood on the gate and been abused when I’ve tried to find out if a visitor is entited to special treatment. It’s hard enough arranging for a wheelchair when required, or selling a Pensioner/Senior ticket without entering the veteran eligibility quagmire. If a show chooses to have special veteran facilities, great, and good for them – but the assumption that ‘they should’ is, bluntly, unrealistic.

Very nice, it’s a great theoretical answer, and an excellent idea – but hardly covering the real numbers of veterans.

The link is for members of the British Armed Forces – all of them, combatant or not. It (understandably, from logistical and national reasons) excludes Allied, Commonwealth and foreign combatants and veterans. It’s a great start. It is not an answer to the above conundrum.

I don’t agree the points would be moot. Many veterans do not wish to be identifiend, and to nitpick back, I’m hardly delighted to see it effectively excludes the Commonwealth and Allies. Great idea, I’d like to believe it will work. Like voluntry ID, it’s a tiny percentage of those eligable.

Your last point:

It wouldn’t kill Duxford to provide a FoD style enclosure for Veterans with admission based on the BVR Card – and it’d no doubt give them a lot of good PR

I agree it would be a good thing to do. As a PR win, however, it takes us back to the beguinning of the thread. It would fill people’s assumption of what the IWM should be doing already. Hardly a major amount of good PR, just some. Good, but not great.

My thoughts are based on real experience of museum admission, not forum scuttlebut. I’d be happy to be proven wrong on all above points – in reality, not just here. In the last fornight I’ve been assisting veterans in a (free) museum from several wars, some my country was not involved in. The real world is a lot more challanging for those trying to make these things work (from the British Veteran Card to museums to events) than the above posters believe.

Sorry.

So what your saying its my fault for not checking with Duxford , and So you think it’s ok for one of the Largest airshows in the Uk, not to supply a marquee for ex veterans, Only the ones with Gold or Platinum tickets.

There’s a load of things which ‘should be so’ but aren’t. Where did you hear there was going to be or should be a veteran’s marquee? Who else does this? Sometimes invited guests, who may be veterans are given special facilities at shows, but I don’t know of any venue that just has a free veteran’s maquee – unless it’s a specially advertised item, and I’d certainly check to ensure me and my guests were’nt going to beleft out because the facility was full.

I’m interested in the assumptions you have deployed regarding what should be at Duxford – based on what?

Out of interest shouldn’t the IWM be in a position of houring all veterans? The museum has always not just been about the RAF. Similarily when do people become veterans? Do the guys from Malaya -Suez-Aden -Falklands and Gulf War’s get afforded any special status?

How would you organise this, as the UK has no veteran card or similar? Would people who fought for Japan get reduced admission? What about those who were Japanese veterans from the First World War? (Just check which side Japan was on then, before answering.) What about British citizens who had fought for the Germans in W.W.II? (They exist) UK resident Italian veterans? From 1943-5? How do you manage it at the gate?

The ‘Land fit For Heroes’ didn’t exist when it really mattered to a hell of a lot more veterans who NEEDED support in 1919. I can’t see why or how it can now.

Cheers,

? Do the guys from Malaya -Suez-Aden -Falklands and Gulf War’s get afforded any special status?

And if they do, what about their wives / husbands?

Moggy

Out of interest shouldn’t the IWM be in a position of houring all veterans? The museum has always not just been about the RAF. Similarily when do people become veterans? Do the guys from Malaya -Suez-Aden -Falklands and Gulf War’s get afforded
any special status?

So what your saying its my fault for not checking with Duxford , and So you think it’s ok for one of the Largest airshows in the Uk, not to supply a marquee for ex veterans

Not at all Rob.

I think the idea of providing a marquee for the veterans is lovely idea. I strongly advise you to suggest it to the museum.

It would be truly lovely to think that the veterans are catered for in every location that they ever go to, but they are not right now and to assume that they would be, at the weekend, was presumptuous.

I hope when my legs start to fail me that this thing can be taken for granted, if it isn’t, I’ll surely phone ahead.

I’m sure I will be buying the next edition

Why ?

A call before you go, to check on what the facilities are available, might prevent heart ache on arrival, not just for Duxford, but anywhere else, if they are getting enough phone requests and do not have the facilities, they may just think of implementing them, if they are losing business by not having them.

So what your saying its my fault for not checking with Duxford , and So you think it’s ok for one of the Largest airshows in the Uk, not to supply a marquee for ex veterans, Only the ones with Gold or Platinum tickets. Well I’m sorry I dont agree with this and or did the members of staff I spoke to and helped me out, I think Duxford should honour all members of the R.A.F. I have spent the last 12 years helping old squadron members and I appreciate what theses men did for us and I would expect Duxford to do the same.
Cheers Rob…..[/QUOTE]

Here Here.

I will just say, the people on the gates of the gold / platinum pass enclosures where in no position to say Yeh or not to entry. it all comes from above.

AF (Ex BBMF)

A call before you go, to check on what the facilities are available, might prevent heart ache on arrival, not just for Duxford, but anywhere else, if they are getting enough phone requests and do not have the facilities, they may just think of implementing them, if they are losing business by not having them.[/QUOTE]

So what your saying its my fault for not checking with Duxford , and So you think it’s ok for one of the Largest airshows in the Uk, not to supply a marquee for ex veterans, Only the ones with Gold or Platinum tickets. Well I’m sorry I dont agree with this and or did the members of staff I spoke to and helped me out, I think Duxford should honour all members of the R.A.F. I have spent the last 12 years helping old squadron members and I appreciate what theses men did for us and I would expect Duxford to do the same.
Cheers Rob…..

I’m sure I will be buying the next edition

It only saves money if you were to buy Flypast every month from a newsagent….

I stopped buying it ages ago.

AF (Ex BBMF)

But i don’t want to buy Flypast

Your choice. 🙂

Moggy

I think that was what I said :confused:

How ‘pay extra’? A sub to FlyPast saves money, it doesn’t cost.

But i don’t want to buy Flypast,if i pay nothing now,how does buying flypast save me money LOL,all that was asked for was seating at Duxford for veterans provided by the organisers 🙂

…the IWM and it really is up to them to provide the facilities…

Indeed. But if you want something that’s extra to a ‘standard’ provision, it’s wise to try and arrange it beforehand – it’s not about cost anyway, but facilities.

Bob, I’d suggest writing a formal letter to DX, with just the details of your complaints and concerns, and I’d hope you’d get a useful reply. It can’t hurt to do that to alow them to try and make amends, at least in part.

Best wishes

Correct

It only saves money if you were to buy Flypast every month from a newsagent….

.. the IWM and it really is up to them to provide the facilities,not a private 3rd party company

I think that was what I said :confused:

How ‘pay extra’? A sub to FlyPast saves money, it doesn’t cost.

I hate to point out the obvious, but a subscription to FlyPast magazine, our hosts here, not only get you the magazine for less than you pay on the bookstalls, but an excellent enclosure with well-policed seating and super loos right on the flightline.

I may be wrong, but I suspect that even if you weren’t a subscriber, but had explained the situatuion to the Key guys, the veterans would have been welcomed.

None of which excuses the inflexible attitude of Duxford.

Moggy

You are correct in the service Flypast provide BUT the airshow is driven by the IWM and it really is up to them to provide the facilities,not a private 3rd party company which you still have to pay extra for ontop of the admission prices.

Hi Rob,
Firstly, I’m really sorry to hear you and your freinds had a bad experience.

I have taken my 91 year old grandmother to many venues, and wouldn’t take her without checking out the possibilities first. (Visit or phonecall.) We usually book a wheelchair. As a member of museum staff, having working in the UK and Australia, (not IWM DX) we are continually amazed by people just turning up and expecting all sorts of special facilities to be imediately available. Yes, sure they should be ok, but if you turn up at the same time as a booked visit by a disabled group, you are going to be out of luck. We often can do it, but if the visitor checks first it always saves heartache.

I’ve had to push seven stroke sufferers on a pair of museum wheelchairs up a chairlift in a listed building. I was delighted to do it, but I wasn’t so pleased when we were abused by a wheelchair user for being in a listed building without a lift. A bit of planning will always save grief.