Duxford Jaguar.

Originally posted by Flood
Care to say when? Only the best airframes have been rewinged and refuselage’d so what is left – and what is most likely to be disposed of first – is going to be totally worn out – if it doesn’t go for ground training purposes first. Maybe from another airarm (if they fail to sell to other air forces, of course…) but from the British military…?
Face the fact that any that get sold off before the type is official retired are going to be the equivalent of scrap – look at the first Jaguars released for sale, wasn’t the one that was bought with a view to flying again found to be little more than a hulk?

Flood – attempting to beat down the optimists with reality!

Arr, bin a good plane this. lasted me 20 years, bin refuselaged twice and rewinged three times but she’s as good as new – to paraphrase the one about the broom

Originally posted by ukf14
i think the 1st present RAF fast jet into civvy hands would be the hawk. and would lay money on that….

Care to say when? Only the best airframes have been rewinged and refuselage’d so what is left – and what is most likely to be disposed of first – is going to be totally worn out – if it doesn’t go for ground training purposes first. Maybe from another airarm (if they fail to sell to other air forces, of course…) but from the British military…?
Face the fact that any that get sold off before the type is official retired are going to be the equivalent of scrap – look at the first Jaguars released for sale, wasn’t the one that was bought with a view to flying again found to be little more than a hulk?

Flood – attempting to beat down the optimists with reality!

i think the 1st present RAF fast jet into civvy hands would be the hawk. and would lay money on that. out of the rest jag torn gr7/9 i would say the jag. dont know about the tornado it would need a lot of manpower to serivce it all the time. and the harrier forget it.

How far around the British Isles does the CAA sphere of influence extend ? Maybe we could base the complex types in the Isle of Man & sneak them across at low level for suprise airshow appearances. We could then charge the MOD for providing them with realistic “aggressor” targets to help cover the fuel. Keep the Eurofighter/Tornado F4 boys on their toes so to speak.

Originally posted by Mike J
Probably the Collings Foundation’s F-4 Phantom. There are also a couple of F-100s, and some F-104s, as well as a Draken or two. As far as ‘anywhere’ goes, probably the Lightnings and Buccaneers at Cape Town.

My point entirely. F100, F104, F4… All 1940s-50s technology. Draken, Lightning, Buccaneer… All 1950s technology. For all their power and capability they are not very complex aeroplanes (way beyond me, yes, but they didn’t need computers to control them). Where are the 1960 and 70s designed jets – and we are talking fighters, etc, not trainers – flying after they leave military service? Maybe someday someone will do it – but if that day does come then it will quite probably happen in America, and only there.

Flood – Still the pessimist…

I don’t disagree, chaps, but I’m sure the feeling in 1939/40 was about the same (“Wot? Civillians operating Spitfires? Not likely old chap. These have a V12 engine with high octaine, services only fuels, flaps and retractiable chassis thingy. No chance some civillian will manage that. After all they’re all in Moths…” )

Etc, etc. There’s a lag or gap between service to preservation, so Sea Harrier from RN to Indian Navy to FAAHF is not impossible (unlikely, I agree, but not impossible!) Remember that there was 1 Swordfish being flown by Faireys, none by the FAA in the past.

Just arguing the other side…

Cheers

Not this old chestnut again…

Who is going to pay for the services flying old aircraft? With accountants etc running all the expenditure there will be problems before long in justifying gate guardians or attending air shows with in-service types!
First and second generation jets were fairly simple things but the things in service at the moment are highly complex bits of kit – it would be like comparing a mark 1 Ford Escort with the recent championship winning Formula One Ferraris; you can see that they both have the basics required (engine, wheels, etc) but unless the guy servicing it knows his baby would you trust it to behave in front of an audience? The services engineers are second to none – they usually have all the manuals to hand, all the spares necessary, all the manpower needed, and all the training required (coating it on a bit thick but you know what I mean); when the type is phased out of service they are re-assigned and retrained – their acquired knowledge seeps away…
On the civvie side, and with all the will in the world, would you trust a capable engineer to look after your newly purchased Jaguar (or Tornado F3, or Harrier GR3, or Concorde) when only last week he was tinkering about under a Merlin and tomorrow he’s looking at a fuel-flow problem on a Tiger Moth?
Does this happen in America? What is the most complex ex-services airframe flying in purely civilian hands there – or anywhere?
And I haven’t even mentioned money yet!
Love to be proved wrong but believe me when I say it will never happen.

Flood – The Pessimist?

Re: Re: I hope RAF and Navy…

Originally posted by Mike J
Very unlikely that the RNHF will operate a Sea Harrier. Firstly, the cost would be prohibitive (especially as they are now set up as a self-funding trust)

Agreed there. Some people don’t realise that they are now self-supporting and do not get anything from the Navy apart from hangarage.

Yeovilton will cease to be an operational Fast Jet base after the SHars go, whirly things only from then on (plus a couple of FRADU Hawks, posssibly), so will lose much of the infrastructure to operate one.

There are all sorts of rumours doing the rounds about Yeovilton’s future when the SHARs go, from Chinooks to Hawks.

Look at how much trouble they have had to keep a relatively-simple Sea Hawk airworthy.

They’ve not really had much experience of keeping one airworthy to be fair. They only had WV908 airworthy for a few months before it had to be grounded. Fingers crossed for 2004 that we’ll see it again. The Fury will be back next year unless any major probs occur.

I seem to recall that hanging from a string and having an engine going aren’t mutually exclusive. There’s those annoying planes on a string that whizz around in a frantic circle like a winged pendulum and buzz from the stalls at DX. Perhaps the Jag could do that only full size?
Cheers

I hope RAF and Navy…

do decide to operate some of these aircraft after they retire,thanks D R for agreeing with me.

Just a Mad one!!!

I do agree and can’t see that Harriers or Tornados will ever operate privatly, however couldn’t the RAF operate some and bolt them on to the BBMF,

Not saying they sould all display toget (“Horid Noisey Things”) but act as rememberence flights for The Falklands, The Gulf War and all the other Peace keeping tasks the RAF do.

Im sure RNHF will operate Sea Harrier!

We can but hope, and i think Duxfordhawks point about a historical gap on the airshow scene is a very valid one!

ALL

of the ones you mention are great but not as complex,we missing Lightnings,Buccaneers,Harrier gr3s,Vulcan etc,theres no way a Jaguar or Tornado ever fly in private hands.

Nothing

Of that type i.e fast jet would ever be flown in private hands it just be another dust catcher sad really.I can see that with jags harriers and tornado f3s all coming up for retirement that there be huge gap history wise on the airshow scene,with nothing covering aircraft from the 60s till today.

Robbo, you missed out ” will it ever fly again ?”

If it’s not strung up from the ceiling, I’m sure that argument will surface.

Originally posted by Yak 11 Fan
Best place for it, horrid noisy thing 😮

😀 😀 😀 😀 😀 😀

Moggy

Not enough seats for it to become a taxi, the little train type thing at DX does a far better job.

Best place for it, horrid noisy thing 😮