Duxford website

I would have thought that a list of the IWM collection would be useful to non-enthusiasts visiting Duxford.

This would be a fairly static list and not expensive in time or money to update.

There is a definite problem for the IWM advertising aircraft that they do not own and may be flying elsewhere.

Even without the ‘live’ aircraft, Duxford is an amazing place and well worth a visit. If you include a link to the excellent site Duxford Update this includes the live aircraft.

I think Jonathan this is a case where if you had done it the ‘enthusiasts’ wouldn’t have noticed but the general visitor would appreciate it.

Thank you Jonathan

Good greif, you Poms are such picky whingers, you’ll find something to have a go at in any positive move. Why do you do this???

Jonathan’s suggestion is not outragious or detrimental to the Warbirds movement. It harms no-one, it benefits many. Stop having a go at him for doing his job.

This Pom is in full agreement with you, Dave. Thank you for seeking our views Jonathan.

My only suggestion would be to pick up on one made by DocStirling on Ashley’s Duxford thread for there to be a web-cam (or two) showing activity on the field. I wonder if this might offer a practical way of responding to the appetite among Duxford locals for a heads up on impending movements of histroric aircraft without compromising the regulatory/insurance considerations alluded to by Manonthefence in response my suggestion on that thread that notice be given about such activity. I fully appreciate that private operators at Duxford may have legitimate objections to the provision of significant advance notice of their proposed activities (even if the regulatory/insurance issues can be dealt with) and I wonder if web-cams would go some way to meeting any such concerns as well since they would merely show to the www what members of the public at the airfield can see in any event.

Woody

Good greif, you Poms are such picky whingers, you’ll find something to have a go at in any positive move. Why do you do this???

Jonathan’s suggestion is not outragious or detrimental to the Warbirds movement. It harms no-one, it benefits many. Stop having a go at him for doing his job.

There must be thousands of tourists visiting the Cambridge/East Anglia region who might hear about the museum for the first time whilst planning their holiday, and want to know what they’ll see. The IWM site MUST provide such information and not rely on others to do so, otherwise they’ll surely miss out on customers.

Actually, I think that the majority (i.e. 99.99999%) of visitors couldn’t care less what aircraft the museum has.

I’d dispute that. Many people hear about the IWM at Duxford and want to investigate further what’s there – if their own website hasn’t got a list of their own exhibits, it’s very unhelpful and reflects badly on the museum. People are not going to know to look up some obscure site run by a private individual, are they? Most people would assume the official site would cater to your needs.

The RNZAF Museum’s site used to not hae an aircraft list. I contacted them and asked if they could provide one, and they said they were updating the site after many enquiries for a list, which they did add. Now anyone is able to look it up and see the complete list. Easy.

A website that lists only part of the aircraft collection on show (missing out gems such as Sally B, the various Spitfires, Blenheims, etc, which is what many people go to Duxford to see) would serve only to confuse, IMO

Not if the websites of those other collections on site are linked below Jonathan’s list as I suggested way earlier – it is that simple. All he has to do is add a footnote stating as well as the IWM collection there is more to see on the airfield, including… link…link…link

How hard is that???

And the kind of people you seem to be targeting about this wouldn’t bother paying the £12 per adult entry if they already know what to expect when they get there.

Eh?? I would never go to a museum, especially if you have to pay, without finding out what is there first. It’s simple logic to me to see what they have to offer before going there. Why go somewhere you know zilch about, there’s nothing that could possibly make me go if I don’t know what Ill see.

Personally i don’t see what your aim is when there are so many places that you can find information about the aircraft in the collection, books and the internet

Possibly because the IWM site is the OFFICIAL website of the museum and all museums should list what exhibits they have on display so the public can decide whether or not to visit? Simple logic again. I think it is absolutely amazing that the site hasn’t previously listed the aircraft in the collection – that’s a basic fundamental of an aircraft museum collection’s website.

There is already a link to the duxford update site on the IWM website they should just make that more of a feature thats all. And the kind of people you seem to be targeting about this wouldn’t bother paying the £12 per adult entry if they already know what to expect when they get there. I think the website is ok as it is, it gives an idea of what you may see when you arrive. And to be honest if you didn’t include the private owned aircraft you are missing out on what really makes duxford unique.

On a different note, regarding the point made about the contradiction of my aiming for the general public but asking the enthusiasts, I don’t see it as a contradiction as such, more asking those who are heavily invested in the ‘scene’ to put themselves in the position of the public at large. I also anticipated that not everyone who reads this forum is quite as invested as the regular posters.

Jonathan, your efforts are by no means not appreciated but I would still say that you are best putting the question to the people you wish to serve with this information. Perhaps you could put this question on the IWM website and then your actualy target audience could email you/your colleagues with suggestions.

Its quite hard to put yourself back in the position of the general public when you are an enthusiast. I think everyone here has an above average knowledge of aviation and so our judgement may be clouded. If I try hard and put myself in a non enthusiasts place then i can imagine that it may have limited use as a lot of the aircraft on the list would mean nothing to me and that the only ones that may draw me in would be ‘spitfire’, ‘concorde’, ‘vulcan’ and ‘lancaster’ etc as they are household names. Also the boast of 100+ aircraft etc would attract me.

best regards, steve

Sorry, but I maintain that trying to set aside the privately owned aircraft will simply lead to confusion. These aircraft (and there are quite a number of them) reside in IWM buildings and have IWM placards in front of them. The average member of the public sees them as exhibits in a museum in the same way they see the IWM owned exhibits.

Blimey, that was quick! Thanks Rob. If this was implemented, it would be very different from the content of Martin’s site, which I can thoroughly recommend. It would also not include the privately owned aircraft and would be updated far less frequently. The objective would be to make clear what our ‘core collection’ wasto anyone that might need ready access to it.

If you are going to be doing it in your own time then fair enough if you want to do that but people won’t bother looking if it isn’t updated on a regular basis. Personally i don’t see what your aim is when there are so many places that you can find information about the aircraft in the collection, books and the internet. Do it if you want to but you need to know what your aims are.

Probably best to save your time and our money JonathonF. Might be a good idea to go do some dusting in the AAM if you have spare time on hands.

Sorry, but I’m not letting this one slide. This was suggested with the good of the aircraft collection and visiting public at heart. I resent your dismissive and presumptious implications, especially that I might somehow be wasting public money by using my own time to throw this into the open.

On a different note, regarding the point made about the contradiction of my aiming for the general public but asking the enthusiasts, I don’t see it as a contradiction as such, more asking those who are heavily invested in the ‘scene’ to put themselves in the position of the public at large. I also anticipated that not everyone who reads this forum is quite as invested as the regular posters.

In the final analysis, Collections Online will eventually contain our entire aircraft and vehicle collection. I may simply suggest some tweaks to the ‘flow’ of the site to allow visitors to access it more readily.

Hi Jonathon

Thanks for the positive idea – I think it’s a good thought but another way would be to show a visual schematic of Dux showing the location of all the buildings and external aircraft displays and jus list which aircraft are where by placing named aircraft outlines in each building much like a brochure etc.

Just a thought –

Thanks for keeping up the input here I know a lot of people have a pop at Dux (me included) but it is the best Museum I visit world wide and I guess we all have an opinion on how it could be better – such as more sympathetic and consistant architecture and a bit more tidying up wouldn’t hurt – but these are not as important as the huge strides being made for the future.

regards
John P

Probably best to save your time and our money JonathonF. Might be a good idea to go do some dusting in the AAM if you have spare time on hands.

Jonathan F,
I’m sorry but i have to agree with Mike J regarding confusion for visitors looking for the certain planes without realising that they are a separate entity from the Museum..
The majority of visitors only have a scant knowledge of different airframes but if they happen to turn up at Duxford and see one of the private Spitfires flying or Sally B THAT is what they will remember.
It is therefore logical that it is with that in mind they they may tell their friends or turn up again but if they look at the website and see non of them listed ,well confusion could reign.
I would suggest that you do the website BUT state that the museum airframes are static BUT these other groups operate flyable aircraft from Duxford and then include their websites.
The private companies are not a small minority,their stocks take up alot of Duxfords hangar space.

I think that the simplest solution is to link (with agreement and discussion on bandwidth etc.) to Martins site as it does it for me, covers all associations, a/c etc.

Realise IWM may want to provide their own list but give the guy a bit of recognition and a link of some formal nature?

www.duxford-update.info

Apologies for being dense here. …What is the URL for Martin’s website please?

M

Mike has made a very valid point – confusion will reign.

I don’t believe so. The current site lists aircraft by their exhibition location. Collections Online only carries 47 of our 108 aircraft and yet we receive no calls asking where the remainder have gone or where the flyers are. We already make reference to the various flying aircraft on-site and the importance of this. It would not be difficult to make the situation even more clear should a list go up. But all of your input is appreciated and will be considered.

The solutions to any such confusion would be a) to incorporate private aircraft and risk treading on other’s toes, or b) to provide a link to a third-party website, which I’m not sure would be possible from a corporate standpoint, ethical or fair on the webmaster.

Martin caters more to the enthusiasts, Friends, people like that. It’s really everyone else I’m thinking of. It’s just a list, folks! But if forum residents believe there’s no demand for such a thing within the IWM website, there’s my answer I suppose.

With the greatest respect Jonathan, you ahve contradicted yourself there perhaps. If youa re thinking of everyone else and not enthusiasts then asking us is pointless. We are all enthusiasts here.

best regard, ste

Mike has made a very valid point – confusion will reign.

Jonathan…see if you can get hold of a Duxford guidebook from the mid 1990s (I have a couple you can borrow if necessary – along with some notes on something called, errr…what was it now? Thermal imaging! That’s it :diablo: ) There used to be an index in the back of the guide of Duxford’s aircraft static and airworthy, and their serial numbers.

I think what you are proposing is a good idea – I know you are not proposing to rival Martin’s site, I think it would be particularly handy for people wanting to know what aircraft the MUSEUM has, which I think was your point at the beginning?

Thanks Becka. I do have an Excel file for internal reference that’s pretty good as it’s based on an output from our collections database. And I refer people to Martin’s site regularly.

And yes, as I said, this is for *museum* aircraft. I see Mike’s point regarding confusion, but whilst we enjoy the reciprocal arrangements between site users, we aren’t here to pretend that other aircraft are ours. It’s important that people are aware of what is ours, as nothing else is our direct responsibility with regard to public accountability, museum practice, and the guidelines set down by government and other organisations. One of my department’s roles is provide the access to museum collections that is both required and desired. This might aid that. I’ve experienced no problems when people ask about a private aircraft based here; I can answer basics but would not dream of providing a detailed answer when that is the purview of another organisation. So I refer them to the relevant organisation. Any confusion is cleared up straight away by explaining that all flying aircraft are owned by private individuals or other organisations.

Finally Mike, having just been guilty myself of cluttering up Ashley’s survey thread with unsolicited responses (sorry Becka!), can I ask what the relevance and helpfulness is of your post regarding scrapped airframes to this thread?

Jonathan…see if you can get hold of a Duxford guidebook from the mid 1990s (I have a couple you can borrow if necessary – along with some notes on something called, errr…what was it now? Thermal imaging! That’s it :diablo: ) There used to be an index in the back of the guide of Duxford’s aircraft static and airworthy, and their serial numbers.

I think what you are proposing is a good idea – I know you are not proposing to rival Martin’s site, I think it would be particularly handy for people wanting to know what aircraft the MUSEUM has, which I think was your point at the beginning?

Why reinvent the wheel? Martin’s site is perfect. Surely the best use of IWM’s limited resources is to simply add a link to his site. And then spend the money you were going to spend on doing a bit of website work on something else.

Like the Victor, for instance 😉

No money needed for this Damien, simply a little extra time. Let me make extra clear that this not an attempt to undermine Martin’s site or replace any of its functions. Our current website lists some of our aircraft in a thematic way, by the exhibitions they’re in. That’s fine for browsing purposes. Some of the aircraft are on Collections Online but this is more for those carrying out research or interested in details of history. I’m simply wondering about a link on the ‘What to see at Duxford’ page to a list as basic as ‘Aircraft’ ‘Role’ ‘Period’ ‘Serial #’, perhaps as complicated as adding permanent locations and museum numbers for each to assist further enquiries. Something ultra convenient and accessible. Not covering temporary movements, not covering privately owned aircraft.

Martin caters more to the enthusiasts, Friends, people like that. It’s really everyone else I’m thinking of. It’s just a list, folks! But if forum residents believe there’s no demand for such a thing within the IWM website, there’s my answer I suppose.