DVD footage of Amiens Prison raid !

Andy thanks for the note !

Andy :

Thanks for the note here and have enjoyed this book and know you spent many long hours in research in prepration for its final outcome. Looking forward to your new work . I know it was be a great success !

A salute from :

BlueNoser352!

Lezza wow… like being in a time machine !

Lezza :

Wow…. your were in your own time machine back then…sad that none of these aircraft survived that smelter heaters ……….. great stuff on Preddy. I know from talking to 352nd Historian Sam Sox Jr… I believe he told me that a young Lt Preddy was ingaged to a local woman ..but will have to check into this again. Great story here and you had your own WW II barn yard for sure. Yes… ” Best Years of our Lives ” is a remarkable film about returning WW II veterans…… my favorite is ” 12 O’Clock High” with Gregg Peck ……….. the films have similar recall sequences ..both are outstanding in their own right. Hey I did go to Amiens on June 1st on my way down to Normandy……….. what a feeling to be standing in front of the very place we have been talking about on the forum…….. I visited the final resting place of Group Capt Pickering & Navigator Broadley……. I offerd a prayer to them & a salute for their service in the cause of freedom. I had a nice visit to Amiens and will post some photos here soon. Thanks for the great story on Preddy and the tip on Google Earth……….. will check that out for sure. Just home today from Paris & Normandy..a bit groggy and will respond with a longer email soon………….. now if I can just get my hands on a copy of the 2005 documentary …that would be great..so far all my emails the the parties involved…..have not been returned. But it was remarkble to stand in front of a place I have read about for so long. Yes now the prison is closed in my homes and stores………so different from the 1944 footage………… thanks Lezza for the great stories here and will keep in touch. I can and will be happy to send you those photos in an email if you wish ………… now off to get some needed sleep !

BlueNoser352!

This a fascinating thread but I am not really clear reading post and counter post what happened.

Please would someone precis the key points, separate fact from fiction and tell me what was ACTUALLY planned and what ACTUALLY happened.

Thank you, Blue Noser, for your comments about “Finding The Few”. I am glad you found it interesting. The follow-up, “Finding The Foe”, comes out in July/August.

Info on Preddy,s crash.
http://home.st.net.au/~dunn/nt52.htm

A message for Bluenose

Hi Bluenose,
Interesting info re Preddy.
I live in Albury, on the state border between New South Wales and Victoria in Australia
About 100 kms west is a town called Tocumwal and I suggest you fire up Google Earth and have a look at it.
The Americans established a huge air base there in 1942 and it was called McIntyre Field.
You may wonder why it was so far south.
There was a very real fear that the Japanese would invade the top end of Australia and, if so, the Allies intended to defensively withdraw behind what they called the Brisbane Line.
Get out an atlas, draw a line from Brisbane in Queensland, across to Adelaide in South Australia and you can see how Tocumwal would have fitted into the picture.
When General Kenny was drafted in to run Macarthur’s air wing, he took one look at Tocumwal and said: “Great facility, but too far south.”
He ordered the transfer of units / supplies to Townsville and gave Tocumwal to the RAAF lock, stock and barrel for nothing.
While the Yanks were in town, it was a pretty busy place and it’s possible that Preddy might have passed through.
If you have success with Google Earth, let me know if you spot the surviving hangars and strips.
Now, get out a handkerchief / napkin.
In 1961, when I was a very junior reporter on a local newspaper, I sneaked into the field just after the RAAF had shut it down.
I followed a set of rail lines and the first things I saw on a platform, were stacks of crated Packard Merlins and various radials.
Then in a nearby field, dozens – and I mean dozens – of ex-RAAF Mustangs and, yes you guessed it, Mosquitos.
I crawled all over them and I can still bring back the visual impressions and the aromas of the aircraft.
What I had stumbled on was a wrecking / smelting operation and I learned much later that they reduced the Mosquitos by dropping the engines, lighting a match and then raking up the alloy slag.
The steel bits and pieces went into local dumps; about a decade ago, another aircraft tragic and I recovered some Mossie bits and the few fragments of surviving timber laminations are fascinating.
We also visited a former employee of the scrapper and his Tocumwal garage was a treasure trove of aircraft bits and pieces.
He gave me a Mosquito undercart rubber compression block which makes a wonderful paperweight.
Very few Mossies have survived in Australia.
Oh, one other thing.
Another aircraft I crawled over at Tocumwal was a B-29 / RAF Washington seconded to the RAAF for guided weapons trials at Woomera in the South Australian Outback.
WW353 [ she still carried her RAF number] was still intact when I saw her.
On the return a decade ago, all I could find were some sections of laminated [nine layers] windscreen panel.
No B-29 died further from home; it was a tragic loss.
A Lancaster – originally intended as a pattern for local manufacture which never came to pass – was also dismembered at Tocumwal.
When the Brits finally got going with their jets, a couple of very Special Lincolns – Merlin inboards and outboard Python / Theseus turboprop test units – also made the final trip down from Woomera to destruction at Tocumwal.
Do you remember the extraordinarily powerful opening scene in the classic film, “The Best Years of Our Lives,” when the character played by Dana Andrews walks among the B-17’s in a US boneyard?
Mate, I’ve been there.
Sniff.

Can you please make sure you let us know what you think of the docco!

Me??? I’ll probably forget its on, thats why I put it on here, so others might see it. I’ll try and remember.

Preddy in Australia !!!

Lezza:

What I forgot to say was….a young Lt Preddy was based in Australia ..flying his P-40 named TAR HEEL……………named after the great state of North Carolina. mid air collision took him out of action .Sent back to the states..got into the newly formed 352nd…………..sent to the UK…Bodney..flew Thunderbolts first ………………..then along came that lovely P-51 Mustang….then all H*ll broke loose on Hilters thugs from the men at Bodney !!!!!! Think he flew out of Darwin….. but its late and I can’t recall …so at least he enjoyed sometime in your fine country!

BlueNoser352

THE GREAT ESCAPE THE Reckoning!

Lezza

I see you live in Australia..BlueNoser352 sure hopes to make it out that way
one day. Maj George Preddy flew P-40’s early in his military career before a flying accident put him in the hospital and he was transfered into the newly formed 352nd. So there is a great connection there..fell in love with a local girl…he gave her his wings…guess there was marriage plans in the works. But sadly he was a victim of friendly fire on Christmas Day 1944….. I got a copy of the Australian production ” THE GREAT ESCAPE : THE RECKONING….very good production.well worth it being added to your collection.Got mine from the ABC shop on line. Will post more questions from the book here later. Thanks and have a great summer Lezza.google earth give you a great modern day look at the prison…unreal !

A salute from:
BlueNoser352!!!!

Lezza its a great book !

Lezza:

BlueNoser352 here……..yes a tremendous work of history …have not put it down since it came from Australia and I got the back issue # 28 of AFTER THE BATTLE. Super effort by those two authors. Of course went right to the chapter on Amiens. With the nice help of Julian I found some great images of the prison and what the area looks like today……….its all grown up. Got some good help from folks on the airfieldsforumexchange.com site. Someone had placed several great photos of the prison today and I see the location of the large cemetery where Officers Pickering & Broadley are buried. Heading over to Normandy soon and have made plans to visit the site and pay my respects to all who were killed in the raid. Nothing is better from a historical point of view ..than being in a place where history was made. This will be one of those times. Thanks so much Lezza for the recommendation for the book. Also last week I got Andy Saunders super work on “Finding The Few”………………….. one great book…so well researched …so between those two fine works and getting ready to ” Drop into Normandy”.its been a great month of WW II historical research. I have seen The Great raids series several times on our History Channel..just really gives the basics of the raid..but the footage of those low level passes is tremendous. I am sure there are many more questions to be answered about the raid…. so I will look forward to the new work coming out on it. Would like to know more about the fighter cover given the mission..its so easy to judge from a 21st century military perspective . Lezza…its a rock solid effort……………in our sports jargon…… They hit a grand slam on this one…& that also goes for Mr Saunders book as well.

Thanks again !

BlueNoser352!
82nd AirBorne All American …ALL THE WAY !!!!!
The Day of Days is Fast approaching !!!

Re Documentary

Can you please make sure you let us know what you think of the docco!

‘ From days afterwards to present the entire raid has been almost shrouded in a sterotyped film hero action, this new book will help substantiate certain facts, but above all allows the reader to draw their own conclusions from a selection of new evidence that has for the main not been approached from this angle before.’

Precisely so Julian. For those in Britain there’s a half hour documentary repeat on the raid: this Wednesday Ch 5, 7-30 in Great Raids of WW2. I haven’t seen it before so, whether its sugar or ****e I have no idea.

Best Wishes.
Robert.

Re The Gestapo Hunters

Bluenoser,
Let me know what you think of the Gestapo Hunters.
Regards,
Lezza

The Gestapo Hunters & Finding The Few !

Good day for BlueNoser352 :

Got two great Books in the post this week… our own Andy Saunders outstanding book ” Finding The Few”..which I have not put down since it came and The Gestapo Hunters…. great stuff in here. PLus today in my job as a television news photojournalist I got to meet & cover Prince Edward visiting our fair city of Greenville SC..he was in town representing the Queen. I should have ask him if he reads ” FLYPAST” . But it was strictly official business … !
Andy congrats on this marvelous well researched work…. outstanding research.
Heading off to Normandy and will visit the site of the prison & pay my respects to those lost in the raid. I understand the graves of Group Capt Pickering & his navigator are about 200 meters from the prison. Thanks Julian for the excellent info…. Google Earth is amazing. I’ll play 633 Sq as I buzz past the site of the old prison walls. Oh what Apaches with Hell Fire missiles & that chain gun could have done 60 plus years ago..but can’t alter history !
The main thing here is to stand on that historic ground were the raid happened and salute these men in my own way !

BlueNoser352 is a happy camper today !

The Day of Days is fast approaching!

BBC Link

Link To The story from The BBC

http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/bristol/somerset/7898939.stm

More on The Raid from The BBC !

WWII veteran recalls Jericho raid
Liz Lewis
BBC News, Bristol

Mr Dunlop’s aircraft was one of the first to drop its payload
On the 65th anniversary of an audacious World War II bombing raid on a Gestapo prison, one of the few survivors has spoken of his part in the dangerous mission.
Operation Jericho was devised to give 100 French patriots the chance to escape the firing squad, scheduled for 19 February 1944, at Amiens Prison in occupied Northern France.
Mosquitos of the 2nd Tactical Air Force were detailed to fly as low as possible over the Channel and then on to Amiens.

You never knew whether you were going to come back or not but you never thought that you wouldn’t
Cecil Dunlop
Once there they were to to dive-bomb the high prison walls.
Pilot Officer Cecil Dunlop, 92, from Bath, was on one of the first bombers to fly over the prison and drop his payload.
The planes flew so low – below the level of the prison roof – the crews could see the prisoners running out.
“It was exciting,” recalled Mr Dunlop.
The blast breached the walls of the prison and, while the explosion unfortunately killed 102 prisoners, 258 escaped, including 79 political prisoners.

Flight Officer Dunlop’s plane was hit on the way back to Britain
Mr Dunlop’s son David said: “There was snow on the ground when they flew over and they looked down and they could see the prisoners escaping – all these black dots running around.”
The mission was completed with the loss of only two aircraft and Operation Jericho proved that the Mosquito was able to perform precision bombing raids.
Years later Mr Dunlop and his son met one of the prisoners the raid freed.
“He told us he’d been in solitary confinement and he’d got a rat for company,” said David Dunlop.
On the way back to Britain the plane was hit by anti-aircraft guns.
“You never knew whether you were going to come back or not but you never thought that you wouldn’t,” said Cecil Dunlop.

Andy nice story on pilot officer John Benzie

Andy:

Nice well research story in the latest AFTER THE BATTLE..# 147..enjoyed this very much Looking forward to getting you book..”.Finding The Few” ! If the Amiens did not carry the Code Name ” Jericho’t that time…was there another name it was refered to ? Like a numerical number ?

Thanks

BlueNoser352

Julian thanks for your comments here on Amiens

Julian:

Thanks so much for your comments here on this topic..you have added new information to this topic . This subject matter is of course much closer to the people in the UK. But this particular mission has held my attention for a long time and finding informaiton on it has been somewhat limited. The internet thank goodness has opened some new information and I look forward to the book you refer to being published . Any news on when it will be released to the general public ? It will be nice to have another source to read about the Amiens Raid. I wonder in the last ten to fifteen years has any historian sat down with some of the pilots of the raid and discussed at length the mission and other aspects of the raid ? If one goes to Amiens , what is there to see of the old prison and other locations related to the raid ? A museum perhaps ? Nice to see more added to this topic I started … this forum has been an excellent source for those like me highly interested in this mission. Julian thank you for your insights here …great stuff !

Andy thank you for the information about the name of the raid .. I had never read this before and wonder what the origin was for ” Jericho” ? I have orderd your book …” Finding the Few ” and looking forward to reading it !
I am hoping most of all that some good fellow FLYPAST member will find a copy of that documentary produced back in 2005 on the Raid & Group Captians Pickerings navigator … Brodaley and let me know how I can get a copy..more that happy to pay all expenses.

Thanks to all for your contribution here and addition comments, good way to get into the weekend. BlueNoser352 tips his cap and offers a salute to the additional comments here today !

Julian

Thank you for your sensible and balanced response!

It is pleasing to hear from someone with first hand knowledge of the Ducellier manuscript. I have a passing knowledge of it from Simon Parry, and a more in-depth knowledge of one or two elements that Simon has talked to me at length over.

I think it is true to say that the most surprising elements are more surprising than the fact (and it IS a fact!) that this operation was never called Jericho.

Those who have been somewhat sneering of the fact that somebody is putting forward the truth will no doubt be surprised when they read the final work.

As to Julian’s opening comment that all who took part were indeed heroes, nothing could be more true. The work will not denigrate what they did or achieved (au contraire) but it will tell the real story. The participants are surely owed that.

As for the person who sent me quite offensive messages saying that I didn’t know what I was talking about as I was just a revisionist **** and that of course it was known at the time as Operation Jericho….well…it wasn’t! If that provokes another message from him, then so be it. If that same person wishes to accept the rubbish put out by Fishman in his book, then so be it. He was a journalist, I believe. Maybe he was the journo who wrote “London Bus Found on Moon”. Its about as believable.

I hope that when the Red Kite book comes out then those interested in the subject will be appreciative of those who have striven to put the record straight.

Observations

Hello to all…. one thing poignantly clear is that all who took part in the Amiens Raid were indeed heroes..that is beyond dispute. However having been an aviation researcher for over three decades winkling out fact from fiction can be a problem. However this must not however lead us into a sense of simply accepting either “official histories / accounts” as fact. With the Amiens Raid there has always been controversy. however I did some small amount of research work in France for the future work to be published by Redkite, attending the crash site as well as talking to the last living eye-witness (as far as I could find) who actually witnessed the combat. Now sometimes something so fresh and new is uncovered that I believe it has to be revealed. Combined with what is accurately known this is vitally important. Indeed one may even upset the “Apple Cart” so to speak, in doing so…but just what if many of those apples were indeed quite rotten anyway. I translated the entire Ducellier text and some quite astounding factual discoveries are claimed….but these are small beer when other newly discovered factors come into play. These are documentary, eye-witness and metal detecting sourced and combined illustrate some fascinating new angles. Simon Parry`s new book is not an in your face ridicule of accepted history but more so a dedicated uncovering of previously unknown factors that will indeed change history…combined with those that are known…it offers fresh factual evidence, suggests the reader considers, but does not bludgeon. From days afterwards to present the entire raid has been almost shrouded in a sterotyped film hero action, this new book will help substantiate certain facts, but above all allows the reader to draw their own conclusions from a selection of new evidence that has for the main not been approached from this angle before. I obviously cannot say what revelations are made, but promise one thing future readers of this work will be quite astounded….With myth it matters little what happened in reality…with fact it does… but whatever you prefer these aircrew were true heroes and this book will not detract from that…..Julian