East Fortune 02.09.05

JDK – National Museums of Scotland – Museum of Flight – should pretty much do what it says in the name!

For instance pre Concorde – I could show my children a Whirlwind or Brantley to show
what a helicopter is all about . Post Concorde – nothing! Hardly carrying out the educational remit of a museum when the helicopter has played an important role
in Scotland in both offshore support and rescue work.
There are a number of examples where Scottish aviation could be better portrayed
and without using enormous sums of money to achieve it ! A Hurricane for example -surely a Scottish collection should have one – you state that a collection doesn’t have to have a Nationalistic view – well with the aviation heritage of Scotland why would anyone not wish to portray it!
As for visitor numbers – great! More through the door means more money to pay for the maintainance of Concorde . After that a little can be used to provide a new hangar to house all the aircraft that used to be in the hangar. I well agree that visitor numbers are great – I do however question if numbers alone justifies the changes.
In terms of the wing chop – I am indeed able to prescribe from an ideal world.
However I am an engineer and it doesn’t light my boat as indeed it didn’t at Heathrow
with others. Luckily in all the aircraft I have moved I have never had to chop them in order to get them moved . Maybe I am lucky or just find the option of chopping aircraft about unpalatable.

Mike – Southend was a commercially run museum. The visitor numbers were important
but I cannot see that an aircraft museum near the seaside really needs to have a collection that changes to any great degree. If your talking of appealing to aircraft enthusiasts – well that might be 5% of visitors at the most. The main reason the collection ended was that the aircraft were corroding and the land owners could see
better ways of making money out of the site.

East Fortune could have been the Scottish Duxford

A lot of Scottish Aviation enthusiasts feel the changes at East Fortune over the past two years have been a disaster. Let me explain.

A few years ago I was talking to pilot who has flown his aircraft at various air displays at East Fortune. I asked him whether East Fortune could become a “Scottish Duxford” with the runway in regular use,warbirds and light aircraft permanently based there and the control tower restored to working order. He agreed this was an excellent idea and many people were working towards this goal. The problem at that time was that the runway and control tower were owned by a farmer who used the runway for a Sunday Market and the Museum had to pay the farmer a large sum every time they wanted to use the runway.

At that time he hoped that it would be possible -at some time in the near future – to buy the runway and control tower and turn East Fortune into a working airfield for warbirds and light aircraft,just like Duxford. He said there were already tentative plans to create a grass runway on the land the museum already owned which would allow the operation of aircraft like the Spitfire.

Since that conversation a new curator has been appointed who is not interested in such ideas. The whole place has been “dumbed down” e.g. the acquisition of Concorde which has no connection with Scotland and which is designed to appeal the the “Sun ” reading,Mondeo driving masses rather than true aviation enthusiasts.

This has meant that restoration work on the Bolingbroke and Beaufighter has stopped and many exhibits have been placed in less than satisfactory surroundings. In short the changes at East Fortune have been the biggest blow to historic aviation in Scotland since the closure of the Strathallan Collection in 1988.

Exactly JDK. A museum lives or dies by the number of paying visitors. The Museum does not exist just for enthusiasts. How many families or shool parties would venture to East Fortune Just to see a Beagle or a Jetstream covered in dust? Without its star attraction and other exhibits less relevent to Scotland, it is likely to go the way of other museums (Southend for example,) which became stagnant, and visitors dwindled. Regarding the wing joints, its not as if G-BOAA is going to fly again.

I wonder what the visitor numbers are like at East Fortune since Concorde’s arrival?

Cheers!

Apprently pretty bloody high!

Mike – the problem is that the join is still there and future generations will be somewhat perplexed to see aircraft in national collections which have had their wings sawn off and then reconnected with plates. It’s not really within the concept of preservation of something in the form in which it flew.

Firstly, David, Mike’s post was to say ‘you can’t see the join’, so future visitors aren’t going to have a different perception, are they?

Pop into any museum or indeed, the British Museum. The vast majority of historical artifacts are ‘damaged’ to some degree, often by their custodians. While the wing chop was not desirable, like many aspects of preservation, it seemed to be the best comprimise to those who had to make the decisions – rather than those, like us, on the sidelines able to prescribe for some perfect world.

I wonder what the visitor numbers are like at East Fortune since Concorde’s arrival?

While I absolutely agree that the standing collection needs to be well looked after, and the evidence was that it was not best cared for, for a while, I continue to be amazed at the parocial prescription by some that museums should only represent their own country. Any museum needs artifacts ‘foreign’ to its base to provide contrast and education. Which bit of this is difficult?

Back to the ‘British’ Museum. They sell a T-shirt pointing out the multicultural & multinational nature of this collection – it’s hardly just (or even mostly) ‘British’, which is its strength.

Cheers!

Mike – the problem is that the join is still there and future generations will be somewhat perplexed to see aircraft in national collections which have had their wings sawn off and then reconnected with plates. It’s not really within the concept of preservation of something in the form in which it flew.
The open space around Concorde used to be inhabited by aircraft of far greater relevance to Scotland and no matter what the justification – the is little reasoning in
displacing an eccletic collection of light aircraft for a machine of little importance in the aviation history of Scotland.

The Dove and the Twin Pin were back indoors when I last visited a couple of months ago. Problem is that it is too dark to see them in their tightly packed hanger.

Best wishes
Steve P

Glad to see this thread still generating some comments,I wondered whether to put the pics up in the first place and glad I did now. Some interesting responses.
I agree that ‘AA has been re-assembled and displayed extremely well,but at the same time it does seem a shame that so much indoor floor space is going to waste. I agree some museums do tend to clutter things up a bit,but keeping exhibits indoors is the only way of anything like garaunteeing their long term future. Bearing this in mind,I’m not one who minds the cluttered approach. Additionally,I’m not suggesting the Concorde hangar should necessarily be cluttered up with stuff,simply that atleast some of the floor space should be used to bring things like the TwinPin and Dove back indoors. The Scottish climate isn’t too kind at the best of times,and coupled with EF’s location not too far from the coast it makes sense to protect as many of the airframes as possible surely?

Hi Mike,

That’s the problem with the other hangers. ‘You can’t see the wood for the trees’.

Alex

I visited East Fortune on the way home from Leuchars the other week. I thought the presentation of the “Concorde Experience” was excellent, well worth the £3 charged and very informative. The lack of clutter in the hangar means you can walk around the aircraft unhindered. So many museums try to shoehorn too much stuff into the space available, ensuring you “can’t see the wood for the trees”. The team responsible for re-assembling G-BOAA should be congratulated for the condition of the aircraft -as Eric Morecambe used to say – “you can’t see the join!”

an ex RAF Tornado has arrived at East Fortune ZE934 ex St Athan

Seems alot of wasted floor space in that Hangar to me…

Hi,

Sorry, to me it’s just another glorified transport ‘plane. 😀

Now if they ripped out all the seats, put in a bomb bay then it might be a different kettle of fish. 😀

Alex

Just been to East Fortune this afternoon. Didn’t bother going to see Concorde, saw the one at Duxford last week when we were on holiday. You’ve seen one you’ve seen ’em all.

Welll, not realy, Alex. I’m pleased to have seen and boarded most of the Concordes, and I’d not turn my nose up for 3 quid. The Duxford Concorde is equivalent to a Gloster SS-19, and East Fortune’s to a wartime Gauntlet, so they aren’t really the same. Hand in you ‘Aviation Enthusiast’ anorack on the way out! 😀

It was good to see the Concorde G-BOAA under cover which is the only one of the British Airways examples that is. (But that’s another debate) It is a very tight fit on the top of the tail and the tail was refitted after it entered the hangar so there is no way it can ever come out of the hangar again without dismantling the aircraft or the hangar. It would have been nice if it could have been taken outside on selective summer days for pictures.

Spey, I think the Barbados one is going under cover if it isn’t already (which it needs to be!) While ‘wheeling them out for pictures’ might be nice I don’t think it’s too likely, even without the technical restrictions they’ve chosen to put in place. See the ‘Cosford pounds’ thread for some wittering and comment on this theme.

Cheers

I asked about photography there when I last visited and was told that the only restriction was that I would have to sign a form if I intended using a tripod. Presumably, a tripod = professional = money that we are not getting.

Best wishes
Steve P

Hi,

The Islander is there. Its in a yellowy green colour scheme, if I remember correctly. Didn’t take a picture though.

Wasn’t asked to sign any disclaimer for photos. I must have took over 140 today.

I’ll post a few once I figure out how to desize them to 150-250k for posting.

Alex

I visited in May this year and had to sign a disclaimer to the effect that the pictures I took were for my own personal use, could not be published, sold or even displayed on the net including these forums.

I did go into the storage hangar and agree it is very dark and most exhibits are crammed in very tightly with barriers in front. The Islander had just arrived from Cumbernauld and was still under a tarpaulin awaiting reassembly. I thought it might have been going to be put in Loganair colours but apparently it is going to be in the colours of the Scottish Air Ambulance.

In the main hangars another thing that goes against the photographer is that instead of having boards in front of the aircraft giving information they have large drapes hanging from the ceiling which obscure a good clean shot of the aircraft.

It was good to see the Concorde G-BOAA under cover which is the only one of the British Airways examples that is. (But that’s another debate) It is a very tight fit on the top of the tail and the tail was refitted after it entered the hangar so there is no way it can ever come out of the hangar again without dismantling the aircraft or the hangar. It would have been nice if it could have been taken outside on selective summer days for pictures.

Hi

Just been to East Fortune this afternoon. Didn’t bother going to see Concorde, saw the one at Duxford last week when we were on holiday. You’ve seen one you’ve seen ’em all.

One hanger was closed for guided tours only. Didn’t have time to wait for the next tour. Don’t recall the hanger numbers but the one with the Twin-Pin was rather poorly lit. I tried to get some photos of the Anson but they didn’t turn out so good. Guess my flash isn’t powerful enough.

The other hanger with the Lightning, Phantom etc, has better lighting. The aircraft are rather crammed together, but I did get permission to cross the barrier and take some close ups of the Sea Venom and Sea Hawk.

I saw the Lightning when it was repainted years ago and it still looks immaculate. They’ve taken the long nose probe off for safety reasons as you actually walk under the nose.

Hopefully in the months to come they will get better organised with the lights and rather cramped conditions.

Alex

Great thread Ren Frew, and thanks Ant.

I dunno about these banners, but at Le Bourget, in La Grande Galerie, they have big, big curtains to break up the views to reveal different aircraft at different times – but they don’t adversly affect the photography – in fact they are a help.

Cheers