East Fortune Airshow Cancelled

Just to put my 2 penny worth in after reading this thread. Ref organising Airshows, I have had some experience of this in the past and can fully understand the work and pre-planning that goes into one and the inability to move dates because of the G8 summit. For example some of the things that have to be done are; arranging airspace reservations with AUS, publishing NOTAMs, ACNs, Insurance of the public and participants, booking & paying participants (de-conflicting with other Airshows around the UK), programme and ticket printing, crowd control, PA systems, CAA approval of display lines and Airside safety, disaster plan rehearsals, fire & crash crew facilities & cover, arranging police traffic control, emergency vehicle RVPs, press, advance ticket sales, advertising, ticket fee collecting, car park attendants, litter & FOD collection, portaloos, etc, etc. Imagine one person arranging all that and more and then…… having to change it all to another weekend! It ain’t going to happen I’m afraid. Good luck with your other events this year EF, you deserve medals for holding more than one “Display” per year in my book.

Well Done

MAISO

I think you’ve raised some good points there, Delta, and I for one will be going to the WW2 weekend 🙂

I visited East Fortune on Saturday, I cannot praise enough the museum staff and they way they have done the Concorde Experience.

I am the Airshow Coordinator for the Save Concorde Group and this was an airshow we would have like to attend, we are disappointed that this one has been cancelled, and I fully understand the reason why, planning for airshows starts before the previous one is even finished, aircraft and pilots are booked well in advance as are the concession stands and trade stands.

I am sure that this is a decision that has not been taken lightly, one thing that I haven’t seen mentioned (unless I missed it) is the safety aspect, with the people concerned with the G8 summit, has anyone taken in to account the prospect of having all these planes fly in while so many leaders are in town? It can be seen as a potential threat with regard to terrorists.

Look at the problems generated when a political party heads for a particular place for a conference, the G8 summit surely increases problems a hundredfold.

From the staff that I spoke to on Saturday, they are disappointed, but what from what I heard the WW2 weekend is going to be bigger and better than was planned initially.

Maybe now would be a time to get off the backs of the good people at East Fortune and support them by attending the WW2 weekend, or even going to the museum to see what they have on offer………it really is a good day out.

Lets face it…..this is not their call really, they had no choice in the matter.

Ok, I’ll don my tin hat now 🙂

How can a “Museum” lack enthusiasm.If you are saying that there is a lack of enthusiasm, it can only be about the staff. How am I not supposed to take that personally?

Fair enough point taken. I withdraw my comment and apologise for saying that the museum lacked enthusiasm.You are right in saying that it can only be the staff that I am critising and when I look at it from your point of view I can see that now. But sometimes it seems like nothing is being done about things or that there could be more done. Down to the point of even advertising for local help instead of contractors to tidy up or paint doors etc etc. All this would save money in the long run.

Thank you for that, Scott. I appreciate it’s not easy to apologise in a public forum, so thank you for this. As regards nothing being done, if you visit the museum now, you’ll notice that four of the buildings have just recently been refurbished and look very good. The most recent of these is much larger than most people’s houses and therefore is not an overnight job. These take months of work even with contractors working on them full-time. Even less would be achieved by volunteers working perhaps only one day a week. I don’t know, but there may also berestrictions placed on the quality of the work carried out on scheduled buildings by Historic Scotland – they may require certified staff which would rule out volunteers. I may be wrong in this (building work is outwith my area of responsibility) but it is important to remember that NMS does not have a free hand with the museum site.

Let me just tell you something. I’ve not yet been there three months, and already I’ve worked about the equivalent of a week and a half in flexi-time which is more than can be carried forward and therefore I will never get paid for. I’m not complaining about this – I’m happy to have done it and get through the work needing attention.

If you are not complaining about it then why mention it. I too dont get paid for any overtime I work but I work it just the same so that my job is made easier the next again day. I even work on Saturdays for no pay. There are many of us who work for little or no pay.

The reason I mentioned it was to try and demonstrate enthusiasm. You were suggesting there was a lack of enthusiasm in the museum (which you have now clarified) and I was trying to demonstrate, in a measureable way, enthusiasm for the job, rather than just saying “I like it.” I don’t deny that this is not unusual and I’ve worked unpaid overtime in previous jobs. However, you will find that it is somewhat more unusual in the museum sector.

As regards planning for the airshow, has anyone making comments here on this subject ever organised a civil airshow? Our events officer does it single-handed, along with a multitude of other events throughout the year and is under a lot of presssure. She didn’t want to cancel, but has been facing increasingly impossible odds. How about supporting the museum which you claim to enjoy, rather than complaining about the cancellation of one event in an otherwise busy calendar. And it’s not as if there is no flying taking place at the Museum of Flight at all this year. The airshow is one day – the WWII weekend is two days. Where is everyone saying “well done” for that. Exactly! Some things are just beyond our control and you have to look at the bigger picture. I’m happy to take constructive criticism, but whingeing is no help whatsever.

Just remember it is the whingeing public that make the museum and pay your wages without which there would be no museum and indeed no jobs. I have supported the museum over the years and you know that from quite a few years back. I havent had a go at the event planner organiser as such but there is one thing I totally disagree with is having one person organising the events when at other events around the country it takes a whole army to organise such things. This should be amended but as for her being under pressure well arent we all. I would love to swap jobs for a week and see what its like to do something I love under pressure rather than something I put up with.As for VE/VJ day why would we want to say well done until we have actually experiance the weekend I dont have the powers to see into the furture and besides it might turn out to be a complete waste of time. Who knows? In the other hand later on in the year once it has passed I may well be saying great show how about one like that next year etc etc. We will just have to wait and find out.

I’m not saying you should be congratulating us for an excellent event until the event has happened, but you could at least stop complaining that we had been forced to cancel the airshow and accept that we are organising a two day air event, as well as numerous other events, which at least partially make up for circumstances that, at the end of the day, are entirely beyond our control. Incidentally, depending on funding, the WWII weekend may have an aircraft that will blow your mind. I can’t say more because nothing has been confirmed yet, but potentially this could be a very exciting event.

As regards the suggestion that we are no longer interested in the long term preservation of our entire aircraft collection, this takes time and money which Concorde will unlock. Development of the museum on a scale never possible before should take place, but it doesn’t happen overnight. Yes, three of the hangars are not ideal conditions, but there are restrictions to what work can be carried out due to the site being a scheduled monument, etc. Look at how many months it takes to build a small conservatory – scale that up and you can only begin to imagine the task involved in bringing the whole site up to the standards we would wish to see. This is only possible because of Concorde, which is definitely good for the museum. But to suggest that I’m not interested in preserving our aircraft collection is deeply offensive and personally hurtful.

Never once did I say the staff were not interested in the preservation of the aircraft but the organisation of the aircraft at present is less than ideal is it not. I remember someone on her complaining about some aircraft sitting in pools of water in damp condition under a leaking roof.

What I did say was and I quote.”but Jonathan dont you feel the same about the level of care the aircraft at the museum get. And I dont mean the level of care the staff give them.”

Perhaps it is mor eto do with the managment of the museum rather than anything else then. As it is always the management who get the blame. I wish I could remember back to some of our conversations over the years about the museum I seem to remember some fierce critisim from yourself over the years Ian.]

My apologies – I wasn’t clear when I posted that this response was directed at OSH who had made this comment. I don’t know who he is or where his belief comes from, but clearly he has no knowledge or understanding of the museum, how it operates, or what we are trying to do.

One last thing I know I am not the only person to have these thoughts and that a lot of others will have the same thoughts and feelings its only that I just cant let them go without saying something. Better to have said something at the time and regret it later than to have kept quiet and wondered what might have been.

I appreciate that and welcome feedback, but criticism is pointless. Constructive criticism can help us improve, but just complaining that we’ve been forced to cancel an event, and then use it as an excuse to start slagging off the museum, without making practical suggestions of what we can physically do better, helps no-one. Yes, I don’t deny that I’ve not always agreed 100% with everything that has happened at the MoF. But I’m doing what I can to help improve things.

How can a “Museum” lack enthusiasm.If you are saying that there is a lack of enthusiasm, it can only be about the staff. How am I not supposed to take that personally?

Fair enough point taken. I withdraw my comment and apologise for saying that the museum lacked enthusiasm.You are right in saying that it can only be the staff that I am critising and when I look at it from your point of view I can see that now. But sometimes it seems like nothing is being done about things or that there could be more done. Down to the point of even advertising for local help instead of contractors to tidy up or paint doors etc etc. All this would save money in the long run.

Let me just tell you something. I’ve not yet been there three months, and already I’ve worked about the equivalent of a week and a half in flexi-time which is more than can be carried forward and therefore I will never get paid for. I’m not complaining about this – I’m happy to have done it and get through the work needing attention.

If you are not complaining about it then why mention it. I too dont get paid for any overtime I work but I work it just the same so that my job is made easier the next again day. I even work on Saturdays for no pay. There are many of us who work for little or no pay.

I’m trying to ensure that the collection is properly documented so that we know what we’ve got.

And you are to be congratulated in bothering to do this why else would you be appointed assistant curator unless you could do the job.Well done.

Without this, we can’t look after it. But don’t tell me the museum is not enthusiastic because I can only be offended when such inaccurate comments are made. I stand by my earlier statement – please withdraw your comment.

Answered at the start of the page RE Apology.

As regards planning for the airshow, has anyone making comments here on this subject ever organised a civil airshow? Our events officer does it single-handed, along with a multitude of other events throughout the year and is under a lot of presssure. She didn’t want to cancel, but has been facing increasingly impossible odds. How about supporting the museum which you claim to enjoy, rather than complaining about the cancellation of one event in an otherwise busy calendar. And it’s not as if there is no flying taking place at the Museum of Flight at all this year. The airshow is one day – the WWII weekend is two days. Where is everyone saying “well done” for that. Exactly! Some things are just beyond our control and you have to look at the bigger picture. I’m happy to take constructive criticism, but whingeing is no help whatsever.

Just remember it is the whingeing public that make the museum and pay your wages without which there would be no museum and indeed no jobs. I have supported the museum over the years and you know that from quite a few years back. I havent had a go at the event planner organiser as such but there is one thing I totally disagree with is having one person organising the events when at other events around the country it takes a whole army to organise such things. This should be amended but as for her being under pressure well arent we all. I would love to swap jobs for a week and see what its like to do something I love under pressure rather than something I put up with.As for VE/VJ day why would we want to say well done until we have actually experiance the weekend I dont have the powers to see into the furture and besides it might turn out to be a complete waste of time. Who knows? In the other hand later on in the year once it has passed I may well be saying great show how about one like that next year etc etc. We will just have to wait and find out.

As regards the suggestion that we are no longer interested in the long term preservation of our entire aircraft collection, this takes time and money which Concorde will unlock. Development of the museum on a scale never possible before should take place, but it doesn’t happen overnight. Yes, three of the hangars are not ideal conditions, but there are restrictions to what work can be carried out due to the site being a scheduled monument, etc. Look at how many months it takes to build a small conservatory – scale that up and you can only begin to imagine the task involved in bringing the whole site up to the standards we would wish to see. This is only possible because of Concorde, which is definitely good for the museum. But to suggest that I’m not interested in preserving our aircraft collection is deeply offensive and personally hurtful.

Never once did I say the staff were not interested in the preservation of the aircraft but the organisation of the aircraft at present is less than ideal is it not. I remember someone on her complaining about some aircraft sitting in pools of water in damp condition under a leaking roof.

What I did say was and I quote.”but Jonathan dont you feel the same about the level of care the aircraft at the museum get. And I dont mean the level of care the staff give them.”

Perhaps it is mor eto do with the managment of the museum rather than anything else then. As it is always the management who get the blame. I wish I could remember back to some of our conversations over the years about the museum I seem to remember some fierce critisim from yourself over the years Ian.

I have to say, these comments over the past few days don’t exactly make me feel like welcoming a forum visit. I thought members throught more of me than this, but clearly not. You are all welcome to visit and I hope you enjoy the museum, but I’m not sure that I want to participate in any such visit.

I hardly think these comments are fair as it is only me really that has said anything about the museum and not any of the other scottish forumites so please dont take out your frustration on them. Please dont feel that you wouldnt be invited or welcome to any forum visits in the future as I wouldnt like to feel that this was because of me. And for the record Ian I have seen you do more for the museum in your short time there than some others have done in years so I do respect you and the job you do I just dont have to agree with you 100% of the time. Anyhow if the other forum members decide not to invite myself to a museum visit because of this then so be it. I can visit myself anytime as a paying member of the public although it was nice to be part of a group visit and I think another is long past due but does anyone want to organise one.

One last thing I know I am not the only person to have these thoughts and that a lot of others will have the same thoughts and feelings its only that I just cant let them go without saying something. Better to have said something at the time and regret it later than to have kept quiet and wondered what might have been.

Ian. When I said that +-
“we might even see at a future air display a Blenheim and Beaufighter sitting outside just as they might have done in the 1940’s. That would be a sight worth waiting for.”
I should have mentioned that what I really meant was that when eventually they are finished, perhaps they could be pulled outside a Hanger , if its a good day, on an Air Display day, not be outside all the time!!!! 🙂

Der & Daz,

Thanks for your posts. It’s reassuring to know that some forumites are more positive. 🙂

Radar,
Please don’t take the whingeing as representative of the views of the rest of us.
Some of us appreciate the amount of work you are faced with.

What he says, mate. Much respect.

Radar,
Please don’t take the whingeing as representative of the views of the rest of us.
Some of us appreciate the amount of work you are faced with.

but Jonathan dont you feel the same about the level of care the aircraft at the museum get. And I dont mean the level of care the staff give them.

So you believe more needs to be done. What exactly? How? And with what? Constructively phrased specifics might help museums on their path to improvement (and that includes all of them), but you must bear in mind that there’s only so much the staff can do with the resources, time and manpower available. You seem to be aware of that, and draw a distinction between staff and ‘museum’. And of course, such comments do reflect on the staff and so need to be phrased carefully. By drawing that disctinction are you basically saying you’re dissatisfied with the funding and resources allocated from the National Museums of Scotland? They may be a national, but these suffer the same problems, multiplied by how many outstations they have to run and the expectations of government and visitors. Effectively, mo’ money, mo’ problems! And the outstations inevitably receive only a piece of the already tiny pie.

I disagreed with the idea of having Concorde at East Fortune because of what it would do to the other exhibits which personally I think are more interesting but the museum is catering for the general public not enthusiasts. Concorde arrived and is now on display so lets move on. The increase in visitors has been substantial and this can only be for the good of the collection. There is a new set of Management now in place so although we loose an Air Display this year I would wish to give the new Management time to plan a really good one for next year. If this combines with action to look after all the other aircraft, protecting those outside and building up workshops this will be all to the good. The people who subscribed to the Beaufighter appeal should start to see it being restored and if the Aviation Preservation Society of Scotland can be allowed to start back on the Bolingbroke (Blenheim) and other aircraft we might even see at a future air display a Blenheim and Beaufighter sitting outside just as they might have done in the 1940’s. That would be a sight worth waiting for. So lets give the Museum of Flight as much help as possible to move forward!! They have also started to obtain more aircraft with the arrival of 2 Air and Space Gyrocopters and a reported Loganair Islander.

I forgot to say that I find the staff all very helpful particulary those hardy soles that look after the unheated hangers and show people round in the middle of the winter. I dont wish to single anyone out but “Jimmy” has been there a long time and is still smiling!!!

Thanks for your comments Robert, and plans are much as you outline, although the Bolingbroke and Beaufighter are unlikely to be displayed outside, unless they are being moved. We’re trying to get all our aircraft under cover – not add to those already outside! There are other plans which, at this stage, I’m afraid I’m not allowed to go into. However, hopefully there should be much more to see and do in the near future.

Thanks also for your comments about Jimmy. Most of the Visitor Services staff are pretty new but Jimmy has been there for a while. As you say, he’s always friendly and I’ll pass your comments on to him when I next see him (I don’t know if he’s worknig tomorrow).

Thanks again for your post. It’s nice to have helpful suggestions.

Ian please read my comments before you take them personally. My comment wa that the Museum lacks enthusiasm when it comes to these things and not the STAFF.

How can a “Museum” lack enthusiasm. A Museum consists of building and objects which last time I looked, were inanimate objects and therefore incapable of emotion. If you are saying that there is a lack of enthusiasm, it can only be about the staff. How am I not supposed to take that personally?

Let me just tell you something. I’ve not yet been there three months, and already I’ve worked about the equivalent of a week and a half in flexi-time which is more than can be carried forward and therefore I will never get paid for. I’m not complaining about this – I’m happy to have done it and get through the work needing attention. I’m trying to ensure that the collection is properly documented so that we know what we’ve got. Without this, we can’t look after it. But don’t tell me the museum is not enthusiastic because I can only be offended when such inaccurate comments are made. I stand by my earlier statement – please withdraw your comment.

As regards planning for the airshow, has anyone making comments here on this subject ever organised a civil airshow? Our events officer does it single-handed, along with a multitude of other events throughout the year and is under a lot of presssure. She didn’t want to cancel, but has been facing increasingly impossible odds. How about supporting the museum which you claim to enjoy, rather than complaining about the cancellation of one event in an otherwise busy calendar. And it’s not as if there is no flying taking place at the Museum of Flight at all this year. The airshow is one day – the WWII weekend is two days. Where is everyone saying “well done” for that. Exactly! Some things are just beyond our control and you have to look at the bigger pciture. I’m happy to take constructive criticism, but whingeing is no help whatsever.

As regards the suggestion that we are no longer interested in the long term preservation of our entire aircraft collection, this takes time and money which Concorde will unlock. Development of the museum on a scale never possible before should take place, but it doesn’t happen overnight. Yes, three of the hangars are not ideal conditions, but there are restrictions to what work can be carried out due to the site being a scheduled monument, etc. Look at how many months it takes to build a small conservatory – scale that up and you can only begin to imagine the task involved in bringing the whole site up to the standards we would wish to see. This is only possible because of Concorde, which is definitely good for the museum. But to suggest that I’m not interested in preserving our aircraft collection is deeply offensive and personally hurtful.

I have to say, these comments over the past few days don’t exactly make me feel like welcoming a forum visit. I thought members throught more of me than this, but clearly not. You are all welcome to visit and I hope you enjoy the museum, but I’m not sure that I want to participate in any such visit.

Well,everyone knows that G8 was just ‘sprung’ on them! I’m sorry,but there is a complete lack of lateral thinking in my opinion.I’m not saying that G8 was known about at last year’s event,but it has been known about for some considerable time.

I am also concerned that the policy has shifted from the ideal of preserving aircraft for prosperity,and charge to let the public see them,to ‘we’ve got Concorde now,we can dispense with all these other aircraft,the public will come in droves,and pay more’

Just my thoughts,the fire proof suit is on!

Not sure I agree with your opinion on the case of concorde but say no more we have all been down this road before.

Must agree with the G8 comment though.

Well,everyone knows that G8 was just ‘sprung’ on them! I’m sorry,but there is a complete lack of lateral thinking in my opinion.I’m not saying that G8 was known about at last year’s event,but it has been known about for some considerable time.

I am also concerned that the policy has shifted from the ideal of preserving aircraft for prosperity,and charge to let the public see them,to ‘we’ve got Concorde now,we can dispense with all these other aircraft,the public will come in droves,and pay more’

Just my thoughts,the fire proof suit is on!

The May edition of Flypast mentions that under Concorde there is currently a lot of open space and suggests some aircraft that could be displayed there under the theme of Supersonic Flight. No doubt the Museum have a plan, perhaps even “a cunning plan” but I would suggest that it would be a great place to display Rockets and Space vehicles as Concorde flew near Space? Why have all the hassle of moving the Lightning, if you had seen how it had to be manouvered into its current hanger you might agree.
Anyone else any positive suggestions!

I disagreed with the idea of having Concorde at East Fortune because of what it would do to the other exhibits which personally I think are more interesting but the museum is catering for the general public not enthusiasts. Concorde arrived and is now on display so lets move on. The increase in visitors has been substantial and this can only be for the good of the collection. There is a new set of Management now in place so although we loose an Air Display this year I would wish to give the new Management time to plan a really good one for next year. If this combines with action to look after all the other aircraft, protecting those outside and building up workshops this will be all to the good. The people who subscribed to the Beaufighter appeal should start to see it being restored and if the Aviation Preservation Society of Scotland can be allowed to start back on the Bolingbroke (Blenheim) and other aircraft we might even see at a future air display a Blenheim and Beaufighter sitting outside just as they might have done in the 1940’s. That would be a sight worth waiting for. So lets give the Museum of Flight as much help as possible to move forward!! They have also started to obtain more aircraft with the arrival of 2 Air and Space Gyrocopters and a reported Loganair Islander.

I forgot to say that I find the staff all very helpful particulary those hardy soles that look after the unheated hangers and show people round in the middle of the winter. I dont wish to single anyone out but “Jimmy” has been there a long time and is still smiling!!!

And the “I want the moon on a stick” award goes to….

but Jonathan dont you feel the same about the level of care the aircraft at the museum get. And I dont mean the level of care the staff give them.

Also while I am still in rant mode. At last years PFA Flyin we didnt see the ballon burst or other such displays as in years gone by. This was due to “insert your answer here”

Well from the words of a pilots mouth that was at the flyin. “We didnt get asked to provide a display by the museum therefore cant display”

Pathetic!!!!!

Will this wrong be righted this year. Usaully we at least see Jim McTaggart perform brillantly with his aerobatics and usaully the Duke of Hamilton will display and Gavin Hunter if asked.I remember the Hurricane and the Avenger too all of which displayed why cant we have all this back is there a safety reason??

I will be at any of the flying events at east fortune as I love the place but do not have to like the way it is run or what happens there and as a paying member of the public should I not be allowed MY OPINION. Even if it is adverse to the beliefs of others.

I am starting to grow tired of the museums inability to provide alternate planning and lack of enthusiasm to try and provide the proper care that the aircraft at the museum and the public require.

And the “I want the moon on a stick” award goes to….

I must say that I take personal exception to your comment that the museum staff have a lack of enthusiasm. On what basis do you make this comment? I find it highly offensive and would strongly encourage you to withdraw it and apologise. 😡

Ian please read my comments before you take them personally. My comment wa that the Museum lacks enthusiasm when it comes to these things and not the STAFF. I was commenting on the way the museum has been held back over the years and for “planning reasons” etc we have seen the decline of the airshow from a 3 day spectacular to 1 day. Sorry I will have to correct myself it was a 2 1/2 day spectacular.We have seen promises of bus services for years which from other sources comment seems to have been rubbish. But I cannot comment on the service now as I havent heard any feed back as to what the service is like now that concorde has finally arrived. I know some buildings have been repaired or renovated but what of the important ones that house the proper collection of aircraft are they too to be airconditioned and dehumidified in time or are they to stay original. We have seen the Yes we will buy the runway etc etc etc this story is now so boring I dont even listen to it any more. This was the plan at one time wasnt it.

Personally Ian I find the staff at the museum rather plesent when I have visited but is there one member of staff down there who wont complain or have a complaint about the way the museum is run.

Now do you still wish me to apologise or can my commetns now be taken in the context they were meant in.