East German Airforce – what happened after reunification?

You have to remember the russian doctrine was to launch and guide aircraft from the ground onto the target as opposed to the west of having the pilot do the job, so equipment wise as well as pilot wise it was a different world…

Which happened to be exactly the same in the West. The STRIL-systems in Sweden, the US’ SAGE system… and don’t forget that GCI is a British-developed doctrine. Or do you honestly believe Lightning pilots where ment to loiter around and look for targets on their own?

I appreciate you read a lot of the pre-1990 publications on the subject, but for some reason some of that info is a bit outdated by now.

the MIG 29 engine BTW only has a 300 Hr life on it!!

Prototype engines, yes. Current production standard RD33s have a 4000hr service life. But then again, since it has always been a modular engine it hardly needs depot overhaul but can be repaired on the line.

You have to remember the russian doctrine was to launch and guide aircraft from the ground onto the target as opposed to the west of having the pilot do the job, so equipment wise as well as pilot wise it was a different world, the MIG 29 engine BTW only has a 300 Hr life on it!!

During the RAF Gatow ‘salute to Berlin’ airshow I was jiffed to work the VIP tent looking after the great and good. I had to fly from Gatow in a 7flt Gazelle to Brigade to come back on Eric Honecker’s Mi-8, does anyone know the reg/have a photo of it? Also got a flight in a DC-3 – not a bad day all told.

CSAR – Under fire Sea Kings really can’t shoot back.

Oops sorry. Inability to hover loaded in hot and high conditions would not have been a problem for Germany so I guess you have a point.

All NVA aircraft got Luftwaffe serials.
Including the ones which went straight into storage: MiG-21, MiG-23, Su-22 (although a few of these were retained for trials at WTD61 at Manching for a few years), L29 (not sure if any remained in NVA service by 1990 though), L39, An-2, Z43, Mi-14.

Main reason for their retirement was lack of NATO interoperability, and the fact that they simply weren’t needed. Spares were not an issue in 1990; there were still plenty of spares around, and Dresden was a main hub for MiG-21 overhaul anyway. The spares issue only really happened after the Soviet Union broke up on dec31, 1991. That’s well over a year later.

The MiG-29 remained operational and did have an air defense mission (DACT was a secondary task) with JG73 at Laage. They were modified to MiG-29G standard to make them comply with NATO standards, and they were sold to Poland in 2004 where they are in service now.

The transport aircraft were retained both because they were useful (only long-range transports the Luftwaffe had were four old 707s), and because they became instant commuting aircraft for civil servants by the time the capital moved from Bonn to Berlin. The IL-62s, L410s and Tu-154s were used for this. Some of the Mi-8s might have been as well.

The MiG-17 was retired well before the reunification.

Former East German Mig-29 were certainly used by NATO for Dissimilar Aircraft Combat Training (DACT) while their spares lasted. West German pilots were converted to fly them and I believe many other NATO pilots had the opportunity to fly them to get an appreciation of what they may, one day, have been up against.

ditto..but I do vaguely recall Alexei Sayle commentary on a Discovery wings documentary about Laage following reunification. Not all the East German Mig 29 pilots were retained – not up to scratch apparently- one featured in the film went back to work in a cycle shop…

If I recall correctly, the West German Air Force took in some of the East German Air Force Aircraft, along with some of their bases and personnel. The aircraft that were kept the longest were the MiG-29 and the Tu-154 which were kept for several years. As I recall, the MiG-29s were eventually sold to Poland. The other that were kept for a much more limited period (1 to 3 years), but still received West German markings and serial numbers included the Su-22, MiG-21, An-26, Il-62, Mi-2, Mi-8, Mi-14, Mi-24, etc.

All the other aircraft of the former East German Air force were disposed of fairly quickly, such as the An-2, MiG-17, etc.

Feel free to correct me if I’m wrong as I’m going on pure memory here which like my libido is gradually fading. :p

Cheers,

FC

As for the Hind makin a good SAR machine, I doubt it, lack of internal space would be a limiting factor when you consider the difference in capacity of the Hind and Sea King.

CSAR – Under fire Sea Kings really can’t shoot back.

To be fair there was some attempts at keeping East German items to use with West German equipment like the use of East German bayonets on West Germanys new G36 assault rifle for starts.

Also i remember reading at the time (in AFM i think) that supplies of spares and their cost and keeping an open supply chain was almost impossible as the old soviet union had split and factories making such items went from state property to out on their own literally overnight.

curlyboy

Mainly it was a political decision, but I’m under the impression things like obtaining spares (at all!) were contributing factors. AFAIK, at that time it was REALLY difficult dealing with the Russian manufacturers regarding spares. You just did not ring the usual contact at Mikoyan for a bunch of engines at the usual price and had them delivered the usual amount of time later at your doorstep.
Also for the Bundeswehr as part of NATO it was much more logical and reliable to go the consistent way and use mainly the usual equipment from your usual suppliers.

Shame about the Mi-24 though. They would habe made good CSAR-helicopters …

About the personnel and the bases: Well, due to the lack of the potential aggressor from the east, there was no need to maintain even the size of the existing Bundeswehr. And now think of the influx of an entire second armed force. So away with it – and who cares? Merging two states turned out to be expensive enough (and still is).

The main driver behind binning them was the problem of obtaining spares . As for the Hind makin a good SAR machine, I doubt it, lack of internal space would be a limiting factor when you consider the difference in capacity of the Hind and Sea King.

Probably right it was political. Although the consequence was that some good kit got chucked away, I think.

Russia being difficult? Maybe, but maybe they would be fine with selling spares, etc -> hard currency.

Which reminds me of a myth (I think) where NATO put out a tender for 20 mm cannon ammo. The tender was won by a factory behind the Urals as being the cheapest. I still think it is a good story, though.

I still somehow think that it waste of good kit, but probably right when the main opposition vanished, what to do with an extra airforce.

Reg,

However, if the East German airforce was top-of-the-range standard Russian first line equipment, why was it then really hurled in the bin?

What about the spares, the personnel, the bases?

Mainly it was a political decision, but I’m under the impression things like obtaining spares (at all!) were contributing factors. AFAIK, at that time it was REALLY difficult dealing with the Russian manufacturers regarding spares. You just did not ring the usual contact at Mikoyan for a bunch of engines at the usual price and had them delivered the usual amount of time later at your doorstep.
Also for the Bundeswehr as part of NATO it was much more logical and reliable to go the consistent way and use mainly the usual equipment from your usual suppliers.

Shame about the Mi-24 though. They would habe made good CSAR-helicopters …

About the personnel and the bases: Well, due to the lack of the potential aggressor from the east, there was no need to maintain even the size of the existing Bundeswehr. And now think of the influx of an entire second armed force. So away with it – and who cares? Merging two states turned out to be expensive enough (and still is).

USSR (and to very recently, if not ongoing) China organised its military sites to be near self-sufficient in converting input material into output finished product. Product intended for one-time use.

No documentation covering structure repair, time-due inspections beyond the competence of based conscripts; no illustrated parts catalogs…no parts: “oh, your windscreen is crazed. Not me, guv., contact that factory somewhere in the Gobi desert, we think”.

The 6 CAAC Il.62 looked very pretty lined up at Beijing Airport 5 years after they had been bartered in against trainloads of pork bellies. “Wha..?” I asked. “Out of hours”, they said. “But you teardown your Boeings”, I said. “Yes”, they said: “this s–t has to go back to the Sov factory and we knew it would take forever and cost a bundle”.

Sov kit was inoperable.