Ebay B17

DamienB,

Thanks for your comments. Apologies if I misunderstood you! I agree wholeheartedly with what you say. Where does one draw the line in time/sensitivity? I don’t know. All I do know, as I said earlier, is that there are still people grieving out there in the States and the UK (one of the passengers was on his way to see his sweetheart in Edindburgh for Christmas).

The official recovery which was licenced in the late ’80s recovered many interesting artefacts which now reside in many well meaning museum which record the story of the fallen.

If profits of the sale of such items were to go to some of these museums or to a Veteran’s organisation then at least some good would be coming out of it – although it should still be done with the blessing of the authorities. It’s just when people make personal profit out of this I find it so disgusting.

Skipper

My own interest in this is that I still fly from Knettishall.

I have absolutley no problem with wreck items being recovered, even where fatalities were involved, as long as the site isn’t a registered war grave.

I have big problems with site robbery.

Let us know how you get on with your attempts to get the sellers taken to task. I wouldn’t hold your breath though, I can’t see E-Bay getting very excited about it.

Moggy

Well said Skipper.

Hi Guys

For those of you who know me and what I am about you’ll know this is “my” B-17 – Skipper “an” the Kids. The Serial Number was (4)2-97286 and she belonged to the 388th BG’s 560th BS. She was lost during attrocious weather on 10 December 1944 during a Nav Ex/Whisky Run to Prestwick from her base at Knettishall.

11 young men died:
Pilot, Captain John Littlejohn, aged 22, from Savannah, GA;
Passenger, “Jimmy” Brown, aged 24, from Rhinelander, WI;
Pilot, 2nd Lt Jack Merkley, aged 24, from Blackfoot, ID;
Co-pilot, 2nd Lt Bobby Stoaks, aged 18, from Hollywood, CA;
Navigator, 2nd Lt William Frey, aged 23, from Oak Hill IL;
Bombardier, 2nd Lt Leonard Bond, aged 23, from St Johns, MI;
Radio Operator, Cpl Albert Thomas, aged 28, from Findlay, OH;
Passenger, Major “Doc” Bell, aged 39, from Cannonsburg, PA;
Navigator, 1st Lt. Rosebasky, aged 23, from Great Falls, MT;
Engineer, Cpl. Joe Payne, aged 20, from Monroe, MI;
Radio Operator, S/Sgt. Wade Kriner, aged 20, from Du Bois, PA.
A very sad list!

Their remains were not found until three months later once the snows had melted and uncovered the wreckage.

10 caskets were “filled” with their remains. Three lads were given a group burial as their remains could not be seperately identified. The impact of the crash (a B-17 at 300 mph colliding with a vertical granite cliff face) was such that another casket was filled with rocks to give the impression of a complete set of remains inside.

Although not classed as a war grave, a few incidents I have been aware of over the years suggest that there are still a limited remains at the site. As such I believe the site deserves to be treated with the utmost of respect.

An official recovery was licenced in the late ’80s with many items being presented in a number of museums – the 388th Collection at Market Weston; the RAF Pathfinders’ Museum at RAF Wyton and the 93rd BG Museum at Hardwick being three of these.

Since that dig no other recovery licences have been issued. Despite this, a number of items have gone missing (STOLEN) from the site and have dissappeared to goodness knows where.
This greatly upsets me enough never mind seeing some cretin selling items for personal profit on Ebay!!!

Having spent many years researching and tracing the relatives of those who died as well as those vets who flew Skipper in her 60 odd combat missions I now have a very personal attachment to this ship and her crew. I am also seen by the 388th Veterans Assocation as the “authority” on the history of aircraft. As such I feel I should make a stand on this issue and see if I can get this seller taken to task for his actions. There are MANY relatives out there who still grieve for the lads lost; sisters, brothers, cousins and an orphaned son and daughter. I therefore do not compare this situation with that of Roman coins!

As an aside, everyone should soon be able to read the story of what happened during Skipper’s fateful final flight. I have handed over my research notes to both John Nichol and Ian McLachlan who are soon to publish new books with Skipper’s story taking up a chapter in each of their works. I feel this is a far more fitting way for these young lads’ story to be known rather than being remembered through the callous sale of artifacts from the site of their deaths.

I would encourage you guys to provide more input to this discussion as I am keen for your thoughts.

Regards

Skipper
(Graham Herbertson)

Crash site stuff is sold at Duxford airshows.

well in that case i think that is in bad taste to sell these items

Well ebay opened for me.
This is what was said – for those who are blocked!
THIS IS TWO LINKED 50CAL ROUNDS THEY ARE INERT AND IN GOOD CONDITION APART FROM THE CRASH DAMAGE THAT IS. THEY CAME FROM THE WRECK OF A B17g SKIPPER AND THE KIDS. THIS IS FROM A COMBAT AIRCRAFT 42-97186 of 388th bg. THE STORY OF THIS WREK CAN BE FOUND IN MOST BOOKS ON THIS SUBJECT. A NICE THING THAT YOU DONT COME ACROSS VERY OFTEN. ALL ITEMS OF ORDNANCE ARE TOTALLY INERT AND COMPLIANT WITH EBAY RULES AND REGULATIONS.SOLD AS RELIC, DISPLAY OR CURIO ITEMS ONLY ALL ARE TOTALY INERT AND SAFE TO OWN. SHELLS, BULLETS AND SIMILAR ROUNDS HAVE OILED PRIMERS AND INERT CASES. IT IS THE RESPONSIBILTY OF THE PURCHASER TO DECIDE WHETHER THESE ITEMS ARE LEGAL IN THEIR OWN COUNTRIES OR STATES. ALL ITEMS ARE GUARANTEED AS DESCRIBED. AN ITEM CAN BE RETURNED FOR A FULL REFUND OF THE PURCHASE PRICE (EXCLUDING ANY SHIPPING CHARGES) IF THE ITEM IS RETURNED TO THE VENDOR IN THE SAME CONDITION. EVEN IF YOU JUST DONT LIKE YOUR ITEM WHEN YOU GET IT . I WILL POST AT COST ONLY NO EXTRA CHARGES. PAYPAL IS THE BEST AND FASTEST WAY.

I have it as 353BS/301BG, exploded soon after take off Lucera, 14/6/44 – 3KIA, 7RTD. (The B-17 Flying Fortress Story – Arms and Armour)

Somebody has been ‘grave robbing’;). (And I mean that in a non-judgemental sense!)

Flood.

They were. I think there were more than a normal amount of people onboard. However, I seem to think that they were recovered and it isn’t a ‘war grave’.

personally i don’t have a problem with it so long as no crew members were killed when the aircraft came down

Hang on, this is the B17 up on an island somewhere around Scotland.

Can’t see what the fuss is about, I wouldn’t call it sick personally. But there you go.

It was two rounds from a crashed B17. The serial is provided below. Seems reasonably sick in my opinion to try and profit form something like this. Im going to message the party concerned for a little more info on this. The link works for me ok although with it being ammunition it may be blocked in some countries.

Here is a link to an image of the item

http://i9.ebayimg.com/01/i/01/33/12/b6_1.JPG

steve

What was the item? I’m guessing it wasn’t tasteful… I clicked on the link and got this:

Dear User:

Unfortunately, access to this particular category or item has been blocked due to legal restrictions in your home country. Based on our discussions with concerned government agencies and eBay community members, we have taken these steps to reduce the chance of inappropriate items being displayed. Regrettably, in some cases this policy may prevent users from accessing items that do not violate the law. At this time, we are working on less restrictive alternatives. Please accept our apologies for any inconvenience this may cause you, and we hope you may find other items of interest on eBay.

Thank You.