This was interesting, at least to me. I scored 13 out of 25, so (unsurprisingly) was right in the political centre.
Election 2015: How close are you to the political centre?
By: Beermat - 27th March 2015 at 23:30
Yes.. it might surprise some on here that I do, too 🙂
By: Creaking Door - 27th March 2015 at 22:56
That one may see them as ‘negative’ depending upon ones own view is not the point of the survey data as presented – the data uses the shifting attitudes to that very mindset as a crude yardstick of shifting left/right political attitudes.
Ah, so the questions are all heavily biased (to the ‘left’) because they deliberately don’t want to occupy the ‘centre’ ground; and the agree / disagree option plots the responder somewhere on this scale. I think I finally get it!
Pretty crude stuff in my opinion…..and I hate the whole ‘right / left’ notion anyway!
By: Rii - 27th March 2015 at 18:09
Political Compass is the best of these types of things that I’ve encountered. Which isn’t to say it’s very good.
EDIT: They even have a comparison chart for the 2015 UK election.
By: Beermat - 27th March 2015 at 17:05
Agreed – as I said earlier, it’s the status quo.
See your point – about negative phrasing.. but insofar as it does appear to draw on a 1972 union manifesto (for better OR worse), all the survey is doing is holding those statements up to the light and asking how much the public agree or disagree with such sentiments. That one may see them as ‘negative’ depending upon ones own view is not the point of the survey data as presented – the data uses the shifting attitudes to that very mindset as a crude yardstick of shifting left/right political attitudes. That it choses the bald agenda of (whisper it) socialism is to its credit – it keeps it a pure left/right distinction, not one of other issues, as I said before. It’s just that the language of that particular debate is no longer fashionable. Whether that divide matters anymore is a moot point!
By: Creaking Door - 27th March 2015 at 16:54
When has any British worker not felt hard done by, full stop?
But why do the questions need to be so negative, so devisive? You could ask this question, for example:
To what extent do you agree or disagree that workers will always try to get the better of management if they get the chance?
Is that the same as the original number five question? Would you honestly answer in the same way?
By: Beermat - 27th March 2015 at 16:35
No, probably not – though I expect Alan Sugar strokes his beard in the back of his RR Ghost – and good luck to him.
But it’s just the capital has moved away from manufacturing, into the ‘financial sector’ – the logical final step in the evolution of capitalism, whereby the owner of the capital doesn’t even have to worry about the unfortunate business of actually producing anything!
The question is still a relevant one – does the ordinary British worker feel they are being s*at upon, whether they work for a Shipyard or Starbucks?
By: Creaking Door - 27th March 2015 at 16:20
…they do seem to focus on the negatives that the left do choose to highlight.
Well, exactly! In fact, I don’t think any current mainstream party would be comfortable taking this negative line any more when it comes to ‘big business’!
Just look at the world of commerce these questions portray; does it even exist any more?
Do these ‘owners’ of ‘big business’ still ride around in a chauffeur-driven Rolls-Royce twisting their moustaches?
By: charliehunt - 27th March 2015 at 16:15
I suppose the questions COULD read more like ‘Do you agree that the super-rich in the UK deserve every penny and shouldn’t pay any tax, while you (assuming you are not super rich) don’t, and should’… but I suspect that would be seen as even more leading?
Or – I’ve got a better idea – don’t ask them at all!!:eagerness:
By: Beermat - 27th March 2015 at 15:59
Yes, I see that – thanks Charlie, they do seem to focus on the negatives that the left do choose to highlight.
I suppose my defences of the poll would be:
1) It asks how much one agrees or disagrees with the statement, giving the opportunity for those who don’t hold the view described in the question to say as much. Agreed that it might be a tad simplistic.
2) The results, whatever they are, are compared historically to show how the proportion agreeing / disagreeing changes over time, and nothing else – a crude but clear measure of shifts between traditional left / traditional right views.
That the questions all seem to be whether or not one agrees with the agenda of the left might just be a facet of the right not so much being a philosophy as a defence of the status quo – harder to define definitive statements of what it means to have a right wing philosophy, unless one drifts (falsely) into immigration, race, attitudes to homosexuality, gun control, hunting, vivisection, nuclear power, Jeremy Clarkson.. all of which are actually NOT left/right issues at all (and it is lazy to brand certain attitudes to the above as ‘right wing’, though many left wingers have).
I suppose the questions COULD read more like ‘Do you agree that the super-rich in the UK deserve every penny and shouldn’t pay any tax, while you (assuming you are not super rich) don’t, and should’… but I suspect that would be seen as even more leading?
By: charliehunt - 27th March 2015 at 15:33
Perhaps “leading” might be a better word than “biased”. Leading questions are rightly ruled out of order in a court of law because they include a supposition within the question. Unless you are discussing the price of bananas in a specific shop this morning there are no yes/no answers to complex subjects. Or at least there shoudn’t be otherwise the subject itself is trivialised..
By: Beermat - 27th March 2015 at 15:25
How can a question be biased?
The issue the right seem to have with the questions is their forthrightness. Much like Cameron wriggling last night, how does a Tory answer questions like ‘To what extent do you agree or disagree that big business benefits owners at the expense of workers?’ and ‘ To what extent do you agree or disagree that ordinary working people do not get their fair share of the nation’s wealth?’
To refute the traditional socialist line, a committed Tory would have to say ‘Disagree’. But that would clearly be nonsense. Oh, those poor Mail readers and their sore brains.
These are direct questions asked by an organisation with an historical political understanding of what it means to be ‘right’ or ‘left’, and therefore will not include distracting side shows about immigration that have nothing to do with party / social philosophical views but everything to do with people’s experience / perception / concerns around single issues other than the individual’s relationship to capital.
It is the directness of the questioning around straightforward left/right divisions that seems to be upsetting the more right among us, and leading them to accuse these simple questions about attitudes of being somehow biased.
The point is that attitudes do change. This poll was presented to show that they do (and demonstrate a remarkable correlation between direction of drift and the political colour of the incumbent Government), and also to show an individual where they currently stand among shifting sands.
By: trekbuster - 26th March 2015 at 14:28
Is this the same British Social Attitudes survey that showed that 17% of UKIP supporters don’t believe in Britain leaving the EU?
The same survey shows that for the first time fewer than half the UK population believe in reintroducing the death penalty, down from 74% in 1986.
It is not as good a result (from my perspective) as it at first appears, as people who actively support the death penalty still outnumber those who actively oppose it, once those who say they aren’t sure are taken into account. Still, the fall in support is accelerating which is a good thing (from my perspective).
By: charliehunt - 26th March 2015 at 14:12
Charlie, I don’t disagree that it is simplistic. I do wonder why it is ok to dismiss such out of hand yet at the same time accept a simplistic “first past the post” system of electing a governing entity that almost guarantees a significant minority, if not an actual majority, of dis-enfranchised citizens?
Well that’s the system we have and have had for centuries for electing governments. Right or wrong, flawed or functional it’s what we have. The other is simply a poll amongst thousands to which greater or lesser credence can be given but which actually means very little.
By: Creaking Door - 26th March 2015 at 13:10
Maybe it is me.
Having just re-read the BBC article it seems that these same questions have been asked every year since 1986 by what seems to be government body; I just have to say these seem to be extremely negative questions for a government body to be asking (particularly towards business)!
By: Arabella-Cox - 26th March 2015 at 12:40
Don’t agree CD, most of the responses (admittedly a very small sample size) on this very thread have either been central or right, if the survey is so slewed to the left as you are complaining why are the responses not more “balanced?”
People have the option to agree or disagree with the premise. If you are implying that people are influenced by the nature of the question I won’t necessarily disagree but it also indicates that you believe people are not thinking for themselves. Again I won’t necessarily disagree but I’d also refer you back to the results as demonstrated on this thread.
Could it be your own “bias” is playing a larger part in your perception than you think?
The centre is not necessarily neutral it simply defines the middle point of opinion. In any given time the centre will be different either more “left” or more “right.”
As long as the questions asked are consistent at each point the results can be taken to show peoples positioning relative to the whole population or previous times.
By: Creaking Door - 26th March 2015 at 12:31
…it simply contrasts your response with that of others surveyed. How is that biased?
Because it is a survey that is supposed to show how closely you are aligned with the political ‘centre’; if the questions are biased to one side of the ‘centre’ the survey will surely fail to do what it claims.
The questions are biased; with the exception of the first question all the questions ask to agree or disagree with a very negative premis about commerce, wealth or law. The language used is politically charged language: ‘management’, ‘big business’, ‘workers’, ‘rich / poor’, ‘(business) owners’ and ‘nation’s wealth’; these are stereotypically negative (or positive) terms.
Now I will be the first to admit that my ‘politics’ would be regarded as (slightly?) to right-of-centre (and how I hate that notion of my opinion can be summed-up as simply right or left of some arbitrary neutral centre) but it isn’t just my opinion of those questions; the questions are deliberately designed to move the ‘centre’. My question about immigration wouldn’t get asked because it wouldn’t get the ‘correct’ answer!
By: Arabella-Cox - 26th March 2015 at 11:15
I think you are both missing the point.
This does not indicate a view or opinion as being accurate or even founded on a solid basis, as was somewhat stated in the article, it simply contrasts your response with that of others surveyed. How is that biased?
Observation of bias in my experience almost always indicates that the observer has a particular non neutral viewpoint. That may be justifiable or it may not be.
CD your second set of questions if asked in the same fashion would give a similar result, in that the questions themselves don’t have to be an accurate reflection of reality, the answers merely indicate that persons perception.
Charlie, I don’t disagree that it is simplistic. I do wonder why it is ok to dismiss such out of hand yet at the same time accept a simplistic “first past the post” system of electing a governing entity that almost guarantees a significant minority, if not an actual majority, of dis-enfranchised citizens?
By: charliehunt - 23rd March 2015 at 15:52
Not biased per se but skewed because they make an assertion and invite an agree or disagree response, which is meaningless. As has probably been shown in this thread. Simple is the operative word! Would that life and politics were simple but it isn’t and this sort of poll insults the intelligence of those invited to participate.
By: Creaking Door - 23rd March 2015 at 15:51
To what extent do you agree or disagree that government should redistribute income from the better-off to those who are less well off?
To what extent do you agree or disagree that big business benefits owners at the expense of workers?
To what extent do you agree or disagree that ordinary working people do not get their fair share of the nation’s wealth?
To what extent do you agree or disagree that there is one law for the rich and one for the poor?
To what extent do you agree or disagree that management will always try to get the better of employees if it gets the chance?
Seriously, you don’t think these questions are biased?
How about these?
To what extent do you agree or disagree that immigrants are taking jobs that could be done by people born in this country?
To what extent do you agree or disagree that EU rules make it harder for British businesses to be competitive?
To what extent do you agree or disagree that too much British taxpayers money goes to subsidise other EU countries?
You know, just trying determine people’s attitude to these questions. 😉
By: Arabella-Cox - 23rd March 2015 at 15:01
Bang to rights! My apologies.
Don’t agreed that it is biased however. It is a simple set of questions to determine peoples attitude to those questions, no more no less.
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March 20, 2015 at 11:08 am