Elvington Javelin Move..?????

Its easy to be clever when you aren’t the one doing the job!

Bruce

Come back when we get to page 4 mate and we’ll have her flying again :p

To lighten this rapidly darkening thread, Archimedes is reported to have said “Give me a long enough lever and I’ll move the Earth” All well and good, but where would he have put the fulcrum?

I don’t know, but if he was going to give the world an Enema, he’d stick the tube in Cranfield.

Another tip is to pack dry ice pellets into the hollow space inside the axle, leave for 1/2 an hour and then pull. Liquid nitrogen works even better and quicker.

Played these games and thoughtful persistence normally pays off.

I have to agree with Jackd on this one chaps, many moons ago we had similar issues with 2 aircraft stored at Luton Airport. The Boeing 720 prototype and a old AeroAmerica 707 both aircraft were parked up for a number of years over near the engine Run up bay and had a number of Brake units seized, The USAF at the time were buying up 707/720B aircraft flying them to the Desert and stripping for spares for the KC135 fleet so I was tasked with a gang of handlers to go and fetch them !!.

The procedure was as follows.
1. Jack up the wheel with a bottle jack.
2. Take the wheel off (needs a good soak in penetrating oil to help slide off the brake unit Cogs)
3. Remove the Brake unit (Ring of bolts in the center) and blank off the hydraulic line
4. Refit the wheel minus the brake unit.

we could then tow the aircraft and refit the serviced brake unit & new tyre in comfort of a heated hangar :applause:

As a footnote the 707 Made it back but the 720B had corroded badly and was scrapped at Luton in 1981

[ATTACH=CONFIG]223206[/ATTACH]
Photo Dunlop

Thank you for chiming in Amarok – you gave a detailed description of exactly how I would approach this job and the Dunlop photo gives everyone a better idea of the bits involved here. There is no need here of going to the effort of removing the gear leg and doing a bench disassembly – I have done many gear leg changes on low wing aircraft and know the back breaking conditions that come into play here. I do think the offending part here is a wheel assembly outer bearing that has become fused to the axle shaft. Get past that and things would flow quite quickly. Forget the WD40 and mousemilk garbage that is being suggested and go for a modern age product to get things moving. One thought that came to mind would be to put a wheel nut wrench on the existing wheel nut and torque it to some extremely high value to push the outer bearing race inward – that might crack it lose. The only damage would be to the bearing itself, which is unserviceable and is readily available from most bearing shops. Just trying to be helpful here…..

As I said she’ll not be moving again, not for the foreseeable anyway.

Bearing that in mind, the small team of engineers at YAM have LOTS of other, far more urgent fish to fry, trust me! 🙂

Sorry, bad choice of words!

I am sure it can be done – but with 50 odd years of corrosion, it wont be straightforward!

Bruce

Bruce I wasn’t trying to be clever here , just stating what is involved with wheel and brake removal. The removal process takes into account simplicity in its method. Unlike a car braking system
we are talking about a single axle nut, 2 Stainless steel bearings (only one needs to be removed) and approx. 12 Stainless steel bolts and nuts and the wheel and Brake will be off

to change the U/C leg would require the aircraft to be raised on jacks ( a sledgehammer to crack a nut here!)

If I was on that job I would do the following

attempt the procedure I have outlined I have done it many times and zero failure.

worst case I would get a spare bearing, air chisel the old bearing out

I think it was worked out the wheels had not been removed from this particular jet since the 1960’s. And it’s lived outdoors at various locations and in various weathers ever since. So all things considered the low loader was by far the best option. The aircraft has had its own pan made and is highly unlikely to ever need to move off it again.

Its easy to be clever when you aren’t the one doing the job!

I have no doubt at all that the bearings at the very least are seized onto the axle. Coupled with likely damage from previous removal attempts, it isn’t going to make for a simple job.

I have no idea how the leg works on a Javelin; would it be possible to remove the axle, with all of the brake unit and wheel attached, to allow it to be worked on at a bench?

I know the Mossie museum had a similar problem with Vixen wheels.

Bruce

David,

The rotors engage on the wheel via Stainless steel dogs (alloy and hot metal will not work and this was to prevent wheel seizing on ), also the clearance in the rotors is at least 2mm each side (to allow for heat)so the rotor shouldn’t be the issue.
The bearings (2 of) are Taper fit so all you need to do is soak the out board bearing attempt to Tighten slightly the wheel nut to unstick the bearing or Heat and with pressure on ether side push the wheel from the brake unit side to release.
The bearings and chrome parts on aircraft are top quality, plus the maintenance All aircraft get when in service will pay dividends here.

Kind regards

These wheels are likely to have been on the aircraft for forty plus years ! I should imagine the bearings are seized onto the shafts and the rotors themselves have corroded to the wheels. It will take a bit more than a liberal dose of WD40 ! Probably the only way they will come off is if a hydraulic ram is used and some adaptors are made to pull the wheel off the shaft

I have to agree with Jackd on this one chaps, many moons ago we had similar issues with 2 aircraft stored at Luton Airport. The Boeing 720 prototype and a old AeroAmerica 707 both aircraft were parked up for a number of years over near the engine Run up bay and had a number of Brake units seized, The USAF at the time were buying up 707/720B aircraft flying them to the Desert and stripping for spares for the KC135 fleet so I was tasked with a gang of handlers to go and fetch them !!.

The procedure was as follows.
1. Jack up the wheel with a bottle jack.
2. Take the wheel off (needs a good soak in penetrating oil to help slide off the brake unit Cogs)
3. Remove the Brake unit (Ring of bolts in the center) and blank off the hydraulic line
4. Refit the wheel minus the brake unit.

we could then tow the aircraft and refit the serviced brake unit & new tyre in comfort of a heated hangar :applause:

As a footnote the 707 Made it back but the 720B had corroded badly and was scrapped at Luton in 1981

[ATTACH=CONFIG]223206[/ATTACH]
Photo Dunlop

Have you thought of giving them a good dose of the likes of Mouse Milk or the likes? and leaving for a period of time, would suggest a daily soaking over a period of time, say a couple of weeks.. you might be able to do it through one of the companies that could use it in their advertising product etc

http://www.mousemilk.com/ we use it on seized Aircraft Waste gates etc

http://www.acf-50.co.uk/ we use it on everything put as a preventative really as opposed to what you need.

http://www.bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=795198

https://groups.google.com/forum/#!topic/rec.crafts.metalworking/lO8oIgp8CcU

Having seen the conditions volunteers work in I am sure they are doing their best. The other day I was helping load lorries at my museum – despite wearing army thermals i was still frozen!

Given the problems with the wheels, I thought using that special trailer was pretty good lateral thinking to get the jet moved.

You are obviously the man for the job. We all look forward to your rapid solution to this problem. I dont know where you live but I will pay your travelling costs, within the UK if you release the brakes!! I now expect a deadly silence.

You should have caught me last summer when I was visiting the UK. Unfortunately I live in Canada and will not be returning to your fine shores for some time… I actually have experience on Dunlop disc brakes if you must know and they are very similar to others around. I’m not trying to darken the thread but I really don’t see the difficulty in all of this. The wheels are only held on by the outer nut. If the outer wheel bearings are corroded onto the axle shaft, then things start to get difficult. I would probably try applying some heat to the bearing area, after a liberal dousing with penetrating oil (Aerokroil is a good one) and pound away on what is probably a very marginal tire.

I’ve had the pleasure of having a tour of the inner shops of the Canadian National Aviation Museum in Ottawa some 20 years ago. I was shown to an area where 2 untrained individuals were trying to split the rotor discs from the main shaft of what I was told was an early jet engine from one of the war prizes from the European theatre of combat – German of course. They weren’t using heat or freezing the shaft to help things along so I made some helpful suggestions. At the time I was familiar with the on-wing removal of engine rotor assemblies on a certain British built aircraft. I coached them through the proper technique on how to do the job but then I questioned as to why they were actually ‘splitting’ the engine parts. They gave me a blank stare. The engine was in very good condition and needed no conserving, and nor was there any intention to run the thing afterwards. They were merely wrecking it. As I was being shown around by the head person in charge of these activities, I sensed that they had a quick re-think and possibly stopped the whole process.

I just read a Javelin profile website and they came equipped with Dunlop disc brakes. Being an aircraft mechanic, I found your lengthy addition to this thread to be largely off base from reality. Your suggestion that they came equipped with drum brakes is completely incorrect. Having been involved with the movement of several aircraft with disc brake issues in my lengthy career, I would suggest that it would be quite easy to disable and have the aircraft towable once more. The wheel itself can be removed easily because the discs/rotors are only working on each other and the wheel is ‘splined’ onto the discs. The brake can be dis-assembled once the wheel is removed to the point of removing the offending disc/rotor components and by leaving the major brake carrier in situ. The wheel can be re-installed and the aircraft is now moveable.

You are obviously the man for the job. We all look forward to your rapid solution to this problem. I dont know where you live but I will pay your travelling costs, within the UK if you release the brakes!! I now expect a deadly silence.

To lighten this rapidly darkening thread, Archimedes is reported to have said “Give me a long enough lever and I’ll move the Earth” All well and good, but where would he have put the fulcrum?

All very well and good if you can get the wheel off.

I’m sure given your ‘lengthy career” you would be able to get them off in no time so I look forward to you coming to help free them up, which incidentally we tried to do for a good 3 years or so…

Once aircraft brakes are seized there is very little that can usually be done. The brake shoes within the brake drum are quite a close-tolerance fit (without actually binding, of course) and it doesn’t take much exposure to moisture to close that gap. The problem is that the brake linings are hygroscopic. That is, they absorb water/moisture. Brakes, by their very nature get hot on a regular basis when in use and this is sufficient to drive out any moisture and normally does not present a problem. Larger aircraft braking systems comprise brake packs with layers of brake discs (just like the front wheel brakes on a car but several of them) interposed between packs of brake pads. Exactly the same process occurs here but, in this case, the brake pack may be able to be separated from the wheel rim and the wheel removed allowing access to the brake unit. It is, though, a very difficult job and probably beyond the understanding and capacity of the average museum, unless there are ex-wheel bay volunteers to hand.

Anon.

I just read a Javelin profile website and they came equipped with Dunlop disc brakes. Being an aircraft mechanic, I found your lengthy addition to this thread to be largely off base from reality. Your suggestion that they came equipped with drum brakes is completely incorrect. Having been involved with the movement of several aircraft with disc brake issues in my lengthy career, I would suggest that it would be quite easy to disable and have the aircraft towable once more. The wheel itself can be removed easily because the discs/rotors are only working on each other and the wheel is ‘splined’ onto the discs. The brake can be dis-assembled once the wheel is removed to the point of removing the offending disc/rotor components and by leaving the major brake carrier in situ. The wheel can be re-installed and the aircraft is now moveable.

re:

I think if it was possible she would be belting down the runway – but Mike has said they have tried their best! I am sure the engineers are more than capable but they have their limits…