Ex Air Atlantique fleet

The pleasure flights in the Dakota enabled me to experience my first flight again – I was only 3 months old when that happened flying from Kent to Wick in 1956!
So, I’m grateful AA provided the opportunity to do so…

I was merely asking the question as to why some European operators can ‘get around’ EU rules. It’s a shame there is not the opportunity for enthusiasts to fly in a Dak in the UK anymore. I guess you could become a supporter of the Dutch Dak and nip over before they close the borders to us Brits!

Some remarkably negative and ill-informed comments on here about Air Atlantique. As an former AA pilot I can only say it was the perfect flying job for a chap in his twenties. Tramping around Europe in the Dakota and DC6 was great fun and the weekend sport of borrowing a ‘sprayer’ and rattling the rooftops of Warwickshire was a hooligans delight; an exemption from Rule 5 was well exercised! Nothing lasts for ever …….

Carpe Deim

Mayhem Marshy wrote
Incidentally, also managed to get a flight with South Coast Airlines, from Bournemouth, in their DC3 before their operations ceased

Slightly off-topic, a few pictures of South Coast Airways DC-3 G-DAKK when it was at the Aviodrome in Lelystad NL.

Actions are underway by Classic Wings at Teuge Airport in the Netherlands to try to get it back into airworthy condition again.
http://classicwings.nl/wp-content/uploads/2013/12/GDAKK_Rescue.pdf

http://classicwings.nl/project-c47-english/

As was mentioned earlier, the aircraft is not an EASA type, and therefore the operator was able to apply for an exemption to its AOC to allow it to continue pax operations. In this case the operator decided not to apply for the exemption, announcing a very profitable “farewell tour” and put the aircraft on the ground.

Enthusiasts brought about the petition as the end of ops had been blamed upon Brussels, and as has been noted, that bluff was called.

Pure speculation but it might well have only lasted a season or two before an exemption might have been applied for and a “welcome back” tour might have occurred…

You were doing so well until you linked to the Daily Pail…. 😀

Their owner, Coventry-based Air Atlantique, has reluctantly decided it would be too expensive to fit the required emergency escape slides and weather radar systems required by new European rules for their 65-year-old planes, which served with the RAF during the war.

If operators based in mainland Europe can still operate the DC-3 for passenger flights why couldn’t a UK one do so too if they were so inclined? (putting to one side Air Atlantiques commercial operational support that enabled the pleasure flights)
Have the Dutch and Norwegian operators fitted all weather radar, escape slides (really, for an aircraft which only sits a few feet off the deck?) and all the other EuOps related regs to their aircraft?
Or is it yet again a case of the UK abiding by every word of EU bureaucracy and doing as it is told – rolling over and playing supine to the big bad EU Rottweilers rather than finding it’s backbone and going all ‘French’ on Brussels…

If the will had been there to continue with pleasure flights then how hard would it have been to reduce the seating of the DC-3 to 18 and increase the price to compensate?

Not that easy either, if the Aircraft is built as a 19 seater and has that on the type data certificate then a 19 seater it is, regardless of how many seats you put in it. The seat limitation is there in effect to limit the size of the aircraft, not its actualy SLF carrying capacity.

The other things Moggie has mentioned on, I would add that when they reduced the rating to our current avgas 100LL from the likes of the previous higher ones 115/145 it knocked tons of the Sixes carrying capacity and it simply isn’t going to get any better, that and the rising costs of fuel, previously the motor industry if they couldn’t reach the required rating for Avgas they would dilute it into motor fuel, with the loss of leaded fuel that facility went.

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-518349/How-health-safety-rules-grounded-Dakota-war-workhorse.html

A tour of Air Antlantique’s facilities at Coventry was one of the last aviation based things I did with my father. A cold, damp, murky morning I seem to remember. £30 got you a good tour of the facilities and an insight into the maintenance of the aircraft, a good nose / climb around the aircraft outside (inc. DC3s and a Shackleton), followed by a flight in the Rapide. There was a Twin Pioneer and a couple of DC6s outside too, but we didn’t get as far as those. I’ll try and scan in some photos later…

Incidentally, also managed to get a flight with South Coast Airlines, from Bournemouth, in their DC3 before their operations ceased

Remember the pleasure flying was never a major part of the DC3 operation.

The DC3 were primarily part of the pollution control contract, an affordable aircraft that could be kept sitting on the ground to be deployed at (from memory) three hours notice in the event of an oil spill or whatever.

But as this also required trained and current crew also sitting around, a number of DC3 not sprayer-configured were used to back up the parcel consolidators so that when a DHL Boeing went tech in Brussels, a Dakota could be despatched in short time to transport the priority items. This kept the crews usefully employed and was actually quite profitable too.

The Sixes were added for extra capacity but sharing a lot of engineering commonality. Eventually the inability to get avgas in suitable quantity at major airports led to the purchase of the Jet A1 Lockheeds. The Sixes were then used to experiment with a fast-reconfigurable spray kit.

It was the interlinking of the spray contract, the parcel work, crew training and pleasure flying that kept the DC3 economically viable.

Pleasure flying alone could never be profitable, everyone else who has tried has lasted only briefly.

Moggy

The explanation put about was due to EU regulations affecting commercial aircraft capable of carrying more than 19 passengers and so the DC-3 pleasure flight operation was stopped. If the will had been there to continue with pleasure flights then how hard would it have been to reduce the seating of the DC-3 to 18 and increase the price to compensate? No need for all the hardened doors, lighting, slides then.
Dutch and Norwegian operators seem to manage to continue flying their DC-3s for pleasure flights – working around regs by requiring pax to be paid up supporters?…
The Dutch Dak news page (May 2017) states they are increasing the seat capacity from 12 to 18 seats on PH-PBA!

From No10 petitions page 2009 –

We received a petition asking:

“We the undersigned petition the Prime Minister to act to prevent the grounding on 1st july of DC3 Dakotas due to EU legislation.”

Details of Petition:

“It appears that the EU is interferring with the enjoyment of others again. The DC3 Dakota was instrumental in keeping post war Berlin fed and watered. The EU now propose to ground the type permenantly. Fight to prevent this.”

No10 Response – The DC3 has not been grounded by European legislation. New harmonised EU rules covering aircraft operations, known as “EU-Ops”, require aircraft to hold a standard European Certificate of Airworthiness, but operators of historic aircraft are still able to undertake commercial passenger flights if they receive an exemption from the UK Civil Aviation Authority (CAA) from the requirement. To date no DC3 exemption application has been received by the CAA.

So no UK DC-3 operator applied for exemption?

A case of No will, so no way?…

50 years after my first experience of air travel in a Silver City DC-3, I relived the event in G-AMPY, so managed to tick that box before it was too late!

I think one prob was legislation for carrying Pax in the UK, as they would have jumped through the same hoops as a 737 with hardened cockpit doors, floor emergency lighting, oxygen and I think slides as the door height was above the minimum allowed.

Edit:

Just checked and found it.

http://www.warbirdsnews.com/warbirds-news/air-atlantique-dc-3-dakotas.html

Some of the Electra’s went to Buffalo Airways, I think?

All other DC-3 operators in Europe managed to continue operations when EASA came around, but Air Atlantique (or whatever they called themselves that week) started throwing their toys out of the pram and HAD to stop…

One Dakota, original Berlin Airlift!, went to Berlin and suffered some engine failure and crash landing at Schönefeld. It sits in a hangar and waits to be merged with a second a/c (AA) that is planned to be used as donor. Not aware of any current progress.

Atlantic Airlines that was Air Atlantic I believe, are still in existance, they merged to become Westair

http://www.westair.se/Recruitment

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Atlantic_Airlines_(United_Kingdom)

In early 2013, Atlantic Airways retired the last Lockheed L188 Electra from its fleet in Cargo service. Atlantic was the last operator of the type outside of Canada and subsequently, most of the fleet was sold and transferred to companies in Canada.

News has appeared that Atlantic Airways are to relocate their maintenance base away from Coventry and have it based at East Midlands Airport.

Correct, they have a couple of bays in the ex BMI / British Midlands Hangar.

Thanks! So where did they all end up?

DC3, DC6, Electra, Metroliner plus some stuff operated under the Highland Airways livery before their management buy-out and subsequent collapse.

No DC4 that I can recall

Moggy