EX-RAF Sabres possibly available….

Alan – unfortunately your photo attachment hasn’t been successfully posted. Can you try once again – would love to see it

Meanwhile, do you remember the Sabre being dismantled at Lavenham Airfield on 29th June 1969 & being transported by road to Long Melford, a few miles south, for the ‘Sudbury Old Tyme Rallye’ in the grounds of Melford Hall (We also displayed an old Dakota tailfin with a collection box for public to contribute towards the local ‘Cheshire Home’ at nearby Cavendish). I had been ‘commissioned’ by the Rallye organisers (via JR) to take 8mm colour cine film of the event, but once handed over to the committee I never saw the final film again – real shame, but wouldn’t it be great if someone out there knows of what happened to it. If you recall – we also entered the White Half-track vehicle into the ‘Most Unusual Commercial Vehicle’ class and won the silver cup. Fabulous memories……..

Here’s a few shots from that Rallye to refresh your memories, but sad to say I haven’t got a photo of Sabre on display there, although I know I had a very small amount of 8mm footage that didn’t get included in the main film – will have to try to trace & see if I can ‘pull off’ a print at some time. (1st & 2nd photos are of the Half Track, complete with cup; 3rd shot is of a group of HAPS / Reflectaire preservationists – top row (You, Martin Collins & Anna, plus young ‘Nick’ and, top left, Tom, [I can’t recall surnames] – both Air Training Corps cadets with Chelmsford Sqn.; with 2 members of the crew of the Swordfish LS326, which we had arranged to overfly the Rallye, in the 3rd & 4th row from top [man with dark sunglasses & young chap below on left] )

Blimey! Even more memories. The Dakota tail fin was the result of an expedition by Martin Collins, Dick Robinson and I to the Derbyshire hills above Glossop. We went up there to get exhaust stacks from a crashed Lancaster for NX611 as the steel ones it flew from Australia with were falling apart/off. We found stacks of them (sorry) and also a Dakota fin which we carried down the hill, loaded onto the roof of DR’s car and used it at airshows to raise money for HAPS/Reflectaire by asking visitors to cover it with loose change. Did quite well too – no idea what happened to it.

Sabre pic attached.

I had a book about the history of the Air Training Corps and it included a photo of the tail of a Canadian Sabre which was presented to a Uk ATC squadron,more accurately the vertical stabiliser with the unit markings,wondering if that still survives?.

Alan – unfortunately your photo attachment hasn’t been successfully posted. Can you try once again – would love to see it

Meanwhile, do you remember the Sabre being dismantled at Lavenham Airfield on 29th June 1969 & being transported by road to Long Melford, a few miles south, for the ‘Sudbury Old Tyme Rallye’ in the grounds of Melford Hall (We also displayed an old Dakota tailfin with a collection box for public to contribute towards the local ‘Cheshire Home’ at nearby Cavendish). I had been ‘commissioned’ by the Rallye organisers (via JR) to take 8mm colour cine film of the event, but once handed over to the committee I never saw the final film again – real shame, but wouldn’t it be great if someone out there knows of what happened to it. If you recall – we also entered the White Half-track vehicle into the ‘Most Unusual Commercial Vehicle’ class and won the silver cup. Fabulous memories……..

Here’s a few shots from that Rallye to refresh your memories, but sad to say I haven’t got a photo of Sabre on display there, although I know I had a very small amount of 8mm footage that didn’t get included in the main film – will have to try to trace & see if I can ‘pull off’ a print at some time. (1st & 2nd photos are of the Half Track, complete with cup; 3rd shot is of a group of HAPS / Reflectaire preservationists – top row (You, Martin Collins & Anna, plus young ‘Nick’ and, top left, Tom, [I can’t recall surnames] – both Air Training Corps cadets with Chelmsford Sqn.; with 2 members of the crew of the Swordfish LS326, which we had arranged to overfly the Rallye, in the 3rd & 4th row from top [man with dark sunglasses & young chap below on left] )

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All good stuff. Here is the only pic I have of the Sabre, along with another aircraft we used to look after………. Summer 1968 I think, maybe ’69, I don’t have the original slide to hand to check and the memory isn’t what it used to be. JR’s Rover is in there too and Dick Robinson’s Anglebox.

Some great photos there Dick; I see me, Clive Leach and Ken Rand (among others) scrabbling around under a poorly supported, very heavy airframe doing what aircraft preservation enthusiasts in the 1960s did best when required, i.e. make it happen. The risks we took were incredible but we managed to strip, transport and re-build the Sabre without damaging it using the most basic of tools and equipment. Happy days.

Good to hear from you Alan – glad you like Sabre photos. I have to agree with your remarks about the fledgling Aircraft Preservation scene in the UK in the 1960s / 1970s. There was nothing like the fantastic support services and facilities available to current day restoration groups & organisations, throughout the world. Aircraft preservation enthusiasts of that era were largely reliant upon the volunteer sector and the goodwill of certain benefactors, both private (public) and corporate – hence the number of ‘credit bombs’ painted on the port nose section of Lancaster NX611 throughout its time with HAPS & Reflectaire Ltd – each with the name of ‘sponsors’. As you point out – the Health & Safety ‘police’ would have had a field day if they had observed the conditions that had to be endured by the many conscientious members (young & not-so young) of those preservation societies. Working most of the time in the open air, often in extreme weather conditions, with basic tools and maintenance equipment, it was almost a miracle that many of the historic aircraft currently surviving in the UK (& abroad), in ‘museums’ and other collections, were effectively saved from the potential clutches of the scrapman. That band of ‘early preservationists’ are due the recognition that they deserve – their efforts often attract somewhat negative comments from the ‘uninitiated’ because of the perceived ‘unprofessional’ practices sometimes adopted, largely out of necessity. Most will admit that the word ‘impossible’ was often bandied about, but that only served to spur on the more dedicated – and, although the air often turned blue (to match the colour of fingers and other extremities !), much was achieved in the long run. Hard & arduous times maybe, but as you say Alan – “Happy days”. You mention that you can identify a number of HAPS stalwarts, you, Clive & Ken – also in the shots are Martin Collins and, of course John R.

To bring back a few more memories – here’s some more shots from Lavenham, RAF Hullavington & Blackpool (Squires Gate) – The first 7 were taken between February & October 1969 (Lavenham); Photo 8 shows Sabre G-ATBF (still part painted as ‘FU617’ ) resting on trestles in the hangar at RAF Hullavington on 11th April 1970, and the last shot(No.9), taken at Blackpool Airport on 26th June 1970, shows the nasty damage done to the tail fairing on delivery by road from Hullavington, when the contractor apparently unloaded the fuselage off the low-loader using unprotected chains – he didn’t wait for the Reflectaire team to arrive by air to supervise!!! Very sad sight to witness when the celebrations surrounding the successful arrival of Lancaster NX611 by air that day had subsided. Returning to preservationists visible in some shots, Alan – you will see a couple of others that you should remember – Brian Arbery (on port wing of Sabre in photos 3, 4 & 5 of this latest batch) and Dave Thomas (standing on top of Sabre in the ‘crane’ shot(s)). Here’s to a good dose of nostalgia !!

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Thank you Sabre Jet – that is very interesting!

possibly even the same as being discussed here 10 years ago.

http://forum.keypublishing.com/archive/index.php/t-63310.html

There is also this sabre canopy in UK.

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Sad to say this isn’t F-86 at all: the aft part is too narrow/small and there’s no sense aerial inside the ‘glass’. Any idea where it came from?

It looks like one of the Scimitar canopies from Flowers Yard in Chippenham.

I remember it at Blackpool in Luftwaffe colours when the museum was still going. Remember visiting – must have been 1971 as I was still at primary school!

Yes indeed! Many of us were very sad to see the Golden Apple F86 return to the USA after many years as the sole flying example in Europe. Although not ex-RAF it was a joy to watch at countless air shows over the years.

I was thinking in terms or ex-RAF examples….just to let future generations know that the RAF swept wing jets weren’t all Hunters. 🙂

Let’s not forget that three Sabres still exist in the UK: Sabre 4 at RAFM Cosford, F-86D at NEAM, Sunderland and the F-86A at MAM, Coventry.

I also have quite a lot of bits!

There is also this sabre canopy in UK.

Yes indeed! Many of us were very sad to see the Golden Apple F86 return to the USA after many years as the sole flying example in Europe. Although not ex-RAF it was a joy to watch at countless air shows over the years.

It would be nice if a UK collection could acquire one for display…or flight.

The American supplied aircraft used by the RAF (Neptunes/Sabres/Skyraiders/Sabres/Washingtons) in the early 50s are sadly under represented in collections.

Looks like I need to find a copy of Michael O’Leary’s Osprey ‘Sabre’ book (was this the publication? http://www.amazon.com/Jet-Warbirds-Michael-OLeary/dp/0854298894/ref=la_B00287O05O_1_21?s=books&ie=UTF8&qid=1453650669&sr=1-21&refinements=p_82%3AB00287O05O

Hi Gary (Scotavia) (Memories of Blackpool surfacing again eh.!! – Hi again)
Whatever her ultimate fate – it was a real shame that this Sabre airframe couldn’t have been purchased at the Blackpool auction by someone capable of properly restoring, rather than to become a “children’s plaything”, or worse so it seems. The ironic thing is, that Tom Bracewell had connections to The Rt.Hon. Lord Lilford of Nateby, in that he was the latter’s ‘Estate Manager’ (or so I was told at the time). What a great pity the fate of G-ATBF (XB733) proved to be so different to that of the Lancaster NX611, which Lord Lilford bought at the 1972 auction, and which has survived and still thrills the public at East Kirkby, Lincs, thanks to the wonderful work of the Panton family and all those concerned at the Lincolnshire Aviation Heritage Centre.

If of interest, here are some (B&W) photos that I took at Biggin Hill and Lavenham (they’ve never been published before – copyright retained R.J.A. Taylor). The first four shots show G-ATBF / MM19607 / XB733 at Biggin Hill on 14th February 1969 being dismantled for its road-trip to Lavenham Airfield, Suffolk. The second batch were taken at Lavenham Airfield on 15th February 1969, outside the original Control (‘Watch’) Tower, where the Sabre was unloaded by crane from the flatbed trailer unit (supplied by Messrs. G. A. Masters Ltd of Portslade, north west of Brighton, East Sussex). As can be seen, the weather wasn’t too great !!!

Some great photos there Dick; I see me, Clive Leach and Ken Rand (among others) scrabbling around under a poorly supported, very heavy airframe doing what aircraft preservation enthusiasts in the 1960s did best when required, i.e. make it happen. The risks we took were incredible but we managed to strip, transport and re-build the Sabre without damaging it using the most basic of tools and equipment. Happy days.

For the curious, the Sabres are in and around 15.442008, -87.935682 on Google Earth imagery. Google Earth, Bing Mapping and Apple Maps all capture the Sabres stored in different configurations, so they do seem to get moved around a bit.

One of the Sabre cockpit and the Seafire.
cockpit f86 by philip elcock, on Flickr

seafire vp441 by philip elcock, on Flickr

[QUOTE=Bruggen 130;2288652]This is a pic of the Sabre at Blackpool 71 QUOTE]

Very sad to see the damage to the nose / engine intake & front landing gear fairing in that photo!!! Things at Squires Gate were seriously worrying to me at that time – my having left the employ of Reflectaire Ltd (John Roast) in late 1970 – mainly because I dared to voice my discontent at how the fledgling ‘museum’ and its important aircraft & vehicle collection were being (almost) abandoned to the increasing ravages of the uncontrolled public access to the site, and more worryingly, exposed to ‘the sticky finger brigade’!!

The Manchester Guardian took this rather sad looking photo of G-ATBF in May 1971 (Photo No.1 below) as it lay on its belly with wings propped up alongside, with no apparent restoration work in progress. The official Liquidator for the company had by then been appointed, and I had been asked by him to visit the airfield to photograph the exhibits for that purpose. I can only say that my heart sank at what I saw in person on that visit. I can see that the photo of the Sabre that was taken on that day in May 1971 already shows some damage to the front engine cowling so it seems that this wasn’t done during the subsequent task of refitting the wings and raising the aircraft on to its undercarriage once again.

The 1971 photo by Philip Elcock that is posted above must have been taken some months later and it appears that efforts had, by then, been made to strip the Sabre of its remaining colour-scheme – appearing in January of the next year painted in the spurious German markings, as ‘JA-120’ (which was worn originally by Sabre Mk.6 of 2nd Staffel – JG 72, Luftwaffe, Leck, Germany) as in my 2nd photo (below), taken on my visit to Squires Gate in January 1972 – just 3 months before all the Reflectaire property went under the hammer at the 29th April 1972 public auction. Of interest – You can just see Seafire FR47 ‘VP441’ positioned behind the Sabre.

This is a pic of the Sabre at Blackpool 71
f86 bw by philip elcock, on Flickr

One -with the RAFM

Forgive me for know knowing off the top of my head…
How many ex-RAF Sabres are in the UK?