EXTINCTION? Which types and when.

Shorty01,

More Hampden photos request – of Vancouver, Rotary Farm or Russia?

Mark

Nice shots Mark 12, I recognise that farmhouse. Of course you couldn’t plonk it there now, it’d get in the way of the railway. 🙂

Tim did mention to me that he’d had it there a few years ago, but I didn’t realise just how substantial it was. Your photo would have been around 96 I guess?

I’m impressed with the difference 17 years can make !

Hhmm, mutter Hendon Halifax, mutter…….

Have you got any more pics Mark12 ?

……and a shot I took in Vancouver back in 1986 shortly after it was recovered from salt water.

Mark

Right, here we go, try

http://www.canadianflight.org/collect/col_11.htm

A pic I blagged off their website is below.

Marauder wrote

The Canadian Musuem of Flight pulled the basically intact remains of P5436 out of a lake in the eighties – don’t know where they’re up to with it.

There is a website on this somewhere. The last time I looked they had nearly finished it. Most impressive. I”ll see if I can find it.

…………….and…………

Well technically Russia now.

The Hampden serial P1344, in red, eroded to reveal the replacement tail unit from a Hereford in black – L6012.

Mark

Originally posted by Marauder
The Canadian Musuem of Flight pulled the basically intact remains of P5436 out of a lake in the eighties – don’t know where they’re up to with it.

Wasn’t there one in the UK somewhere as well? Ex Russian wreck?

Two. One at East Kirkby for restoration to static, and another with the RAFM, also for static display. The RAFM example interestingly has the tail of a Hereford, which shows the latter’s serial. Unfortunately I can’t remember any of the serials at the moment. Both Hampdens were recovered from their crash sites in northern Sweden.

Flood

Interesting… Not quite within the question but getting along with the ideal – probably the last RAF issue, British-built Blenheim survivor is/was Z7513 which was essentially lost in May 1942 when flying with 15 Sqn SAAF and then was rediscovered in a more or less complete state in February 1959 in the Libyan Desert.

Details:
http://www.filton.flyer.co.uk/bristol/survb149z7513.htm
I differentiate this from the Canadian built versions, which form the majority of the survivors, the wrecks (including Z7513, now nothing more than scattered components) that grace a few museums, and of course the Finnish Air Force Museums BL-200 which is the only surviving, and complete, British built Blenheim. Was Finland the last Blenheim operator?

Unless you know different!

Flood.

I believe there is another British built Blenheim in the Sahara, a Free French operated machine. I think it belly landed, and the crew stayed with it hoping for rescue, as it went down in a minefield.

It was a mine disposal unit that came across it, I think there was a picture of it on the net somewhere…can’t remember where though.

Richard W

The Canadian Musuem of Flight pulled the basically intact remains of P5436 out of a lake in the eighties – don’t know where they’re up to with it.

Wasn’t there one in the UK somewhere as well? Ex Russian wreck?

Those extinct Dornier types, can they now be considered dead as a DoDo……..

I am sure there is a Hampden in a place near Abbostford (Langley I think) little airport with a museum

Steve,
I read about the Albemarle’s last night and hoped then that someone else might be able to enlighten you… They haven’t so I shall, with my brain thumping away, try to recollect what I remember happening. If anyone else can add to – or correct me – then please feel free; there is so little on the net it is unbelievable!

Once upon a time… The RAF Museum excavated a dump at Westnewton (date unremembered – possibly very early 80s – and location is probably somewhere around Cumbria; sorry again for my ignorance) and recovered what I recall being described as ‘frames’. Initially there was the usual stuff about a type coming back from the dead but the RAF Museum seemed to quickly pass what they had on to the Pennine Aviation Museum, which then split up (?) and the parts are mentioned in Wrecks and Relics 17th edition (since I seem to have mislaid my 18th edition somewhere…) as being in the Charnock Richard, Lancashire, area and as “best described as ‘1 ½ nose sections’ plus some other pieces”. I do remember serial numbers being quoted at the time for the wrecks but checking through my Wrecks and Relics collection they have never been used in connection with these bits – not that I am saying they are not those serials, just that W&R have never used them and I don’t have any other reference material which would help.
I don’t ever recall seeing pictures of these remains but imagine that there is very little hope of resurrecting an Albemarle from them if the RAF Museum has passed on them…

Interestingly whilst trying find info to add to my poor memory I found this:-
http://accessibility.english-heritage.org.uk/Filestore/publications/pdf/free/Mil%20Air%20C%20Sites.pdf
which gives (on page8) a list of the 21 ‘extinct’ military aircraft in use over the UK in the late 1930s/early 1940s, which mentions-
Horsa (claims some surviving sections but no complete examples), Albemarle, Whitley, Manchester, Botha, Firebrand (stretching the criteria a bit?), Bermuda (ditto – and I didn’t think any got here anyway, quite apart from the fact that the wreck of one is stored (or being restored) in Tennessee), DH Don, Hotspur, Harrow, Hector, Percival Petrel, Saunders Roe Lerwick, Stirling, Warwick, Whirlwind, plus those old favourites Do17/215, Do217, He177, Ju86, and Ju188!
Now as far as the term extinct goes – is that it? Are there no other types to be added to that list that would have flown over Britain in WWII? This list goes between types with a production run of 8 (DH Don) to 3,655 (Horsa) so there dos seem to be a bit of leeway!

… And they all lived happily everafter?

Flood.

Halifaxes – didn’t the Pakistani Air Force operate a few in the late forties, possibly early fifties…?

Two other types which were unceremoniously culled; Hampden (last one was chopped at Bicester in the mid fifties), and the Mickle Fell Stirling, large sections of which were lifted off Mickle Fell by the RAF in 1980 for a planned restoration for the RAF Museum, and then reportedly scrapped, although apparently some bits still survive at Cosford.

And talking of extinct types and the RAF Museum, just been flicking through Vintage Aircraft Directory by Gordon Riley, dated 1985, and it mentions these two identities…

AW.41 Albemarle
V1787 RAF Museum St Athan (?)
LV500 RAF Museum St Athan (?)
(The above are believed to be major components only for eventual rebuild of a composite airframe)

Anyone know any more about this project…?

The last complete Halifax was PN323 which existed at Radlett until the mid 60’s it was eventually scraped as there was no where for it and the nose went to the Skyframe musuem and eventually to the IWM. I would guess the Egyptians might have had the last flyer. After the Berlin Airlift most of the G- ones were scraped(last one in service 1952) but 13 were sold to Egypt in 1950 as paratroop transports.

If I look in wrecks and relics 3rd edition(1968) the loads of Horsas were used on farms around Brize Norton and Cosford.
In old issues of the Aeroplane spotter….
DH91 Albratross fuselarge survived at Burton, Wilts in 1946 along with some prewar light aircraft.
The last AW27 Ensign pre war airliners was broken up at Hamble in 1947 after all but two were flown back from the Middle East.
Believed to be the last Blackurn Roc L3084 used as a wingless engine testbed at Eastleigh summer 1946.
Last prewar flying boat was indeed the Golden Hind G-AFCI which after years of storage at Rochester was towed to Hamble for overhall in May 54 but sunk in the channel in a gale.

My dream is that one of the 20 Vickers Vimy Commercials shiped to China in 1920 and never uncrated will one day be found and reyurned home.

Interesting… Not quite within the question but getting along with the ideal – probably the last RAF issue, British-built Blenheim survivor is/was Z7513 which was essentially lost in May 1942 when flying with 15 Sqn SAAF and then was rediscovered in a more or less complete state in February 1959 in the Libyan Desert.
Details:
http://www.filton.flyer.co.uk/bristol/survb149z7513.htm
I differentiate this from the Canadian built versions, which form the majority of the survivors, the wrecks (including Z7513, now nothing more than scattered components) that grace a few museums, and of course the Finnish Air Force Museums BL-200 which is the only surviving, and complete, British built Blenheim. Was Finland the last Blenheim operator?

Unless you know different!

Flood.

Last Stirling – was it Egyptian A/F into the early fifties? They picked up a batch from a Belgian civil outfit and used them as transports. No idea what became of them.

I’d be interested to know what were the last flying Halifax and Stirling, and when they both ‘died’.

Westland Whirlwind 1 last example scrapped in 1947

Sticking with large flying boats (and planned replacements): –

Last of the 3 Saunders Roe Princess scrapped July ’67.

The one and only Bristol Brabazon lasted until Oct ’53.