F-104 In Transit

Open day info.

Mostlyharmless, please see new thread re open day.

Hi Guys
Yep, this beast is now at Bruntingthorpe, sitting in our yard at the moment. She will be reasembled in the next few weeks and make her public static debut at the May 25th “Big Thunder” open day. I was with the new owner today, and he will be looking to build a team to work on her, with the eventual aim of her joining our fast taxi fleet. The cockpit is totaly intact and she is in generaly very good condition.
So if you want to see her in the flesh, pop along on May 25th.

Apologies if its listed somewhere else, I had a look around and couldnt see anything, but what is happening on the 25th? Is there anywhere that lists a lineup or schedule or anything? It might be me but the website for the cold war jets collection seems to be no more.

Thanks in advance if anyone has got any info,

MH

Looks like i’m going to be turning scrap harrier panels into starfighter ones then, i’ll see how bad it is at the weekend when i help to put it back together in between working on the vixen

Great to see the phantom cockpit here in the UK..

I have to ask, did the owner buy it after seeing my link(http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/showthread.php?t=79060&highlight=phantom), or was he already aware of it? Either way, it’s great to see it over here…

Any anyone wanting to buy the tornado cockpit, here it is…http://allegro.pl/item343048930_samolot_tornado_do_samodzielnego_zlozenia.html

It runs out in 15 hours, but this is he second time it’s been listed… no interest first time!

Ritch, do you think there is any chance hat you could put me in contact with the owner? I’m going back out to Warsaw in June and would like to talk to the guy about the yard where these cockpits are / were kept.

Close!

Close!
There were 5 Phantom’s available in Poland, and I belive 3 Tornado’s as well, but I can now confirm that there are only two Phantom’s left for sale in Poland!!!!!!

Shipping expenses

One last thing to consider, shipping an item this large is incredibly expensive, so buying the cockpit is just the start

Don’t I know it, try shipping a cockpit from the UK to Aus like I did last year.
Paul

Wasn’t there an GAF F-4 cockpit section up for sale in Poland lately?

I don’t quite understand Phantom cockpits, I mean some people are able to aquire/sell them, others who are ‘in the know’ can’t rescue them when they are being destroyed and some have even had them taken back and scrapped. Is it different rules for different airframes?
Paul

The RAF Phantoms were all in the main covered by the arms reduction treaties agreed with the Russians at the end of the cold war. This lead to the ‘mass scrappings’ at Wattisham and Leuchars, which involved the complete fragmentation of the frames with Russian witnesses. This is what also led to one or two examples being re-possesed after the cockpits were squirrelled out of the yards, although there are one or two others which escaped the ‘recall’ and been stashed away under the radar ever since (although these are now resurfacing) it is however still debatable whether these are legally ‘owned’ as far as the MOD are concerned.
The complete examples still on gate guard duty are similarly covered (hence the loss of the St Athan one recently). Those at Tangmere and Carlisle are loans via the RAFM, whilst the Duxford one is I guess now under the auspices of the IWM.
Mick Jennings was the only person who I know to actually get to own his cockpit, after many months / years of negotiation he finally got the MOD & Russians to acknowledge there was no restictions on it from an arms treaty perspective.
In the main the USAF Phantom airframes in Europe are all covered by USAFM loans, although I’m not to sure about the one at Baarlo, however I do not think even these would exist today if the loans were trying to be negotiated post 9/11.
Further afield I guess the rules are different, as demonstrated by the recent and impending Bruntingthorpe arrivals.

Hi Guys

First, re Phantom cockpits, the new owner has literally had to travel half way across Europe, and lay out thousands of pounds in hard cash to make this happen. Most of us wouldn’t even consider starting the process that he has gone through, let alone see it through. Also the RAF / British government do have a particular line they follow about these things, that overseas Air Forces / Governments don’t necessarily follow, that’s why in this case the owner has had to shop overseas, and not interestingly in Germany!!

I read over and over again on this forum, people who want a cockpit section moaning about availability, but they are available if (a) you look hard enough, and make the right contacts, and (b) if you are willing and able to lay out that kind of cash.

Cockpits are a valuable item, and the price is dictated by both demand from enthusiasts and the basic value of scrap. We work at a Museum all year round, come rain, snow or sunshine, in so doing we meet the right people, and could probably buy half a dozen cockpits a year if we only had the cash.
There is no department in Woolworth’s selling these things, so you have to get out there were they are and meet people. Cockpitfest is a good place to start, there is nearly always something for sale there, and if you talk to the guys, they will without doubt point you in the direction of something.

As for them being reclaimed by the USA and being scrapped, it has happened in the past, and again, it’s a risk you run, and I hope in this case it will be ok.
One last thing to consider, shipping an item this large is incredibly expensive, so buying the cockpit is just the start, also it is amazing how many aircraft parts and especially engines are contaminated with or contain radiation, so shipping can be a real nightmare.

All in all, the average cockpit owner is often something of a hero, just for making it happen!

Certainly the most sensible thing i’ve read here for quite a while, and it’s schpelt right as well. Well said Rich………

.

ritch and max, PM sent.

Cheers

Ben

True! but one needs to be cautious with all statistics to ensure that any comparisons are made using the same criteria!One of the easily findable comparisons between the F104 and other century fighters uses different total flying hours because the F104 was newer and had not accumulated as many hours.
One does not need to be an aicraft designer to see that the F104 was grossly underwinged and therefore could never be anything other than a fast missile carrier.

cheers baz

More like a manned missile I’d say. How can you expect good aerodynamics from something over twice as long as it is across the wings? IIRC 54′ long and 21’7″ wingspan without tip tanks.

Hi Guys

First, re Phantom cockpits, the new owner has literally had to travel half way across Europe, and lay out thousands of pounds in hard cash to make this happen. Most of us wouldn’t even consider starting the process that he has gone through, let alone see it through. Also the RAF / British government do have a particular line they follow about these things, that overseas Air Forces / Governments don’t necessarily follow, that’s why in this case the owner has had to shop overseas, and not interestingly in Germany!!

I read over and over again on this forum, people who want a cockpit section moaning about availability, but they are available if (a) you look hard enough, and make the right contacts, and (b) if you are willing and able to lay out that kind of cash.

Cockpits are a valuable item, and the price is dictated by both demand from enthusiasts and the basic value of scrap. We work at a Museum all year round, come rain, snow or sunshine, in so doing we meet the right people, and could probably buy half a dozen cockpits a year if we only had the cash.
There is no department in Woolworth’s selling these things, so you have to get out there were they are and meet people. Cockpitfest is a good place to start, there is nearly always something for sale there, and if you talk to the guys, they will without doubt point you in the direction of something.

As for them being reclaimed by the USA and being scrapped, it has happened in the past, and again, it’s a risk you run, and I hope in this case it will be ok.
One last thing to consider, shipping an item this large is incredibly expensive, so buying the cockpit is just the start, also it is amazing how many aircraft parts and especially engines are contaminated with or contain radiation, so shipping can be a real nightmare.

All in all, the average cockpit owner is often something of a hero, just for making it happen!

Nashio966
I can put you in contact with the owner if you like, and I am sure you would be most welcome at Bruntingthorpe, I believe he intends setting up a dedicated group soon, so getting involved should be easy.

Hi Guys
Yep, this beast is now at Bruntingthorpe, sitting in our yard at the moment. She will be reasembled in the next few weeks and make her public static debut at the May 25th “Big Thunder” open day. I was with the new owner today, and he will be looking to build a team to work on her, with the eventual aim of her joining our fast taxi fleet. The cockpit is totaly intact and she is in generaly very good condition.
So if you want to see her in the flesh, pop along on May 25th.

if he’s looking for a team, starting in september ill be at coventry university studying aerospace engineering, and would gladly pop across at weekends to help out 🙂

I don’t quite understand Phantom cockpits, I mean some people are able to aquire/sell them, others who are ‘in the know’ can’t rescue them when they are being destroyed and some have even had them taken back and scrapped. Is it different rules for different airframes?
Paul

What about the Phantom cockpits?

I am a little suprised that no one has mentioned the German Phantom cockpit section that also arrived at about the same time! with two more to follow, same owner as the Starfighter, and a very popular man at Brunty at the moment!!! see the pics below taken by Max yesterday.
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn93/xn584/PICT0010.jpg
http://i302.photobucket.com/albums/nn93/xn584/PICT0009.jpg

There’s one sat in the parking lot at my local bank, need any bits?

(& another at the local aeropark..) 🙂

actually I think there must be 5 or 6 of them within an hour of here..

7 if you include anything thats left of the one that collided with the XB70..which is rather neatly marked on google to aid people looking for bits

Hi Guys
I was with the new owner today, and he will be looking to build a team to work on her, with the eventual aim of her joining our fast taxi fleet.

My ears can’t wait for that! Oh, the joys of hearing the whine of a J-79 fed by shock-cone intakes…

That will be awesome to see and hear!! Brunty is definately on the map of places to visit!! Can you let the owner know theres a chap in italy that sells f104 stuff on ebay and theres been a shed load in the past, If I can dig out his name again I will pm the details for you.

Some JP fots would be nice – it may get me going again 🙂

PM sent.

FMK.6JOHN
PM sent!