F-22 news and discussion thread

This will be a good time to introduce funding to bring the 34 aircraft to combat coded status and increase the fleet. This will add 36 aircaft back to the fleet and you could probably get it done a lot earlier if you pursued the fastest route (instead of the cheapest route). 34 more stealth aircraft into the combat coded units @ 40-50 million a pop is not a bad deal especially since you can’t build any more.

Air Force weighs cost to upgrade 34 F-22 trainers to combat configuration

The Air Force estimates it would cost $1.7 billion to convert 34 older-model F-22 training jets to an operational configuration that is homogenous with today’s Block 30 Raptor fleet.

Former Air Combat Command Chief Gen. Herbert Carlisle told lawmakers last summer the service was “looking very hard”at what it would take to convert the training jets to operational assets. In an August report to Congress, the service says that upgrading the Block 20 trainers to a Block 30 configuration with the most up-to-date software as well as a suite of tactical upgrades would take about eight years and cost approximately $1.7 billion, a price tag it describes as “extensive.”

“The funding and technical challenges to upgrade the Block 20 F-22A aircraft will be extensive and compete for limited fiscal and contractor resources,” the service states, noting that the work would contribute to the largest modernization the jet has undergone since production ended and would likely impact fleet and depot availability.

However, the service notes that if it had additional funding beyond current appropriations, the upgrade could provide increased capacity at a time when the service is struggling to meet the demand for combat capability.

ACC spokeswoman Jennifer Spradlin told Inside the Air Force in August the service has not made any decisions about whether to convert the jets, but noted “the option is still on the table.”

Since the first F-22 jets were produced, the combat-coded portion of the fleet has undergone three major upgrades: a common configuration update to transition from Block 20 to Block 30; an upgrade to the jet’s air-to-ground capability, known as Increment 3.1; and an Increment 3.2 modernization effort, which includes additional weapons integration, enhanced geolocation capability and improved electronic protection. The Air Force is currently installing the second phase of Increment 3.2, known as Increment 3.2B.

Beyond Increment 3.2B, the service plans to begin an interoperability upgrade in fiscal year 2018 followed by a pair of tactical upgrades: One known as TACLink16 will field a Link 16 transmit and open mission systems capability and a second known as Tactical Mandates includes an upgrade to the jet’s Identification Friend or Foe capability as well as increased electronic protection.

Each of these upgrades builds on previous work, the report notes, which means that if the service wants its F-22s to have the TACMAN capability, it needs to perform the common configuration and incremental software and hardware upgrades first.

The F-22 program office and the contractor team of Lockheed Martin and Boeing both conducted separate cost and schedule estimates and came up with similar results, the report states. Along with considering the cost and time line for upgrading the Block 20 jets to the TACMAN configuration, the service also evaluated the cost of only upgrading them to the Increment 3.2B configuration. That effort would still take about eight years and cost about $1.45 billion.

Part of the reason for the significant cost increase is that the F-22, along with many of these upgrade efforts, is no longer in production. For example, the report states, the F-22 Block 30 radar — which significantly improves capability over the third-generation Block 20 radar — is no longer in production, the report states.

“The manufacture of new Gen 4 radars will require requalification of supplier capabilities and verification, including flight test, for radar functionality and could impact schedule as well as cost,” the report states.

This issue expands beyond the radar, according to the report, and if initiated, the program would need approximately five years to address issues related to diminished manufacturing and obsolescence.

“Prior to production, there will be costs to restart the production lines for some components,” the report states. “The timing and cost associated with restarting production is uncertain and a risk factor to account for that is included as part of the estimate.”

Following the five-year restart effort, the report estimates it would take about two years to complete the modification. It notes that the upgrade’s potential impact on F-22 availability will be a key variable in deciding how to phase the effort that will have to be resolved if the service decides to move forward.

The work could also impact ongoing F-22 upgrade costs and schedules, and the report notes it will be important to determine what work can be done in parallel with current plans.

If the program were to begin next year, the report estimates it would need $66.9 million in FY-19, $113.1 million in FY-20, $205 million in FY-21, $248 million in FY-22 and $154.9 million in FY-23.

The report notes that along with the slate of tactical upgrades, the F-22 has a robust modernization roadmap. If the service were to opt to upgrade the 34 training jets — and if it wanted to maintain a homogenous fleet — there would be additional costs associated with outfitting those jets with future modifications, which include new helmets, improved sensors, and greater GPS anti-jam capability.

Welcome in the wonderful world of stealth planes!
part.

Nothing to do with “stealth” and everything to do with small production run, decision to box up production line (the lose and mislabel tooling), and the USAF demand for F-22’s that cannot be met except by repairing aircraft that would have been written off or stored for parts. Damaged bulkhead and longerons would usually result in one of the latter. The USAF is also restoring an EMD bird to flight status as well, it highlights the folly of a 194 airframe production run. A lot of those early Raptors weren’t supposed to be part of the combat coded, or training fleet. In essence, only 150 of the 187 production F-22’s would have been used as PAI, TAI, the rest would have been maintenance trainers, weapons and test aircraft. There were supposed to be roughly 150 more built in following blocks.

Welcome in the wonderful world of stealth planes!
Repairing an aircraft out of production means just that: you have not an assembly line nor spare parts ready, so you have to build them one by one and assemble them on a bench, somethings akin what IRIAF has done with their F-14A, after decades of embargo and the pourposeful destruction made by US of anyy possible spare part.

Never mind the 6 years! How the hell can patching someting up and replacing some panels cost anywhere near that much??

thank you Spud.

Here is the correct link:

https://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/7RfGRCztctCJGKv4Kw–/Ftw8xfLqc9iJ9tWT5vw-/name/02-4037+F-22A+AIB+31-05-2012.pdf

I just checked it, you have to copy the above link and paste it into google search, hyperlink not working.

Wrong link!

https://www.flightglobal.com/news/articles/damaged-f-22-makes-comeback-after-six-year-repair-jo-444022/

Six years. Going to have to look up class A mishaps and report to see the extent of damage, but that seems like a long time for what was essentially a “wheels up” landing. Two things to ponder: if the fleet wasn’t so small, would it have been repaired at all, and if the the F-22 line wasn’t defunct would they’ve been able to replace the damaged parts and get the aircraft back in service faster.

Edit- addition, F-22A 07-4142 which was involved in the landing gear retraction mishap at Hickam has been spotted as active (still at Hickam, with AK base code, Elmsdorf)

Well, here is the accident report for 02-4037 (from a chinese site, interesting):https://xa.yimg.com/kq/groups/…-/name/02-4037+F-22A+AIB+31-05-2012.pdf (you may have to copy paste in google to be able to download)

Short version pertinent points:

he MA sustained an estimated $35 million in damage (Tab P-9). The damaged
areas include the main weapons bay doors, the nose landing gear (NLG) doors, the outboard
F-22A, T/N 02-4037, 31 May 2012
2
main landing gear (MLG) doors and internal components, the lower missile launch detector
(MLD) assembly, and the forward and aft edges of the horizontal stabilizers (see Figure 2) (Tab
P-3 to P-9).

You can see the pictures of the damage in report- pretty extensive inside weapons bay.