Ferrari vs Mclaren

could be true, BUT I doupt you can put all of McLarens misschiev under that explanation. If Kimi’s rather common finnish approach to communications would be the fault, He would have suffered same things with Ferrari, wouldn’t he;)

I’ll give that a definite maybe.
The one thing that strikes me as odd though (don’t know if anyone else has considered this) if MacLaren were guilty of using the stolen information how come Ferrari didn’t do better? After all it was their data so surely they had it in their computers and could make use of it too.
Re: the rumours of Kimi being uncommunicative with his mechanics. The difference between his performance with Ferrari and MacLaren would suggest that they are just that-rumours.
I agree with you about that being the normal Finnish approach to communication as I have experienced it first hand having worked (and partied:D ) with the Finnish army. At work they are quietly professional but unless you are a serious party person you’re best not mixing with them socially. Boy they really know how to enjoy themselves. Must be something to do with those long winter nights when you can have a 3 month party:D

could be true, BUT I doupt you can put all of McLarens misschiev under that explanation. If Kimi’s rather common finnish approach to communications would be the fault, He would have suffered same things with Ferrari, wouldn’t he;)

Sorry mate I’ve hear rumours that Kimi is not very communicative with his mechanics either at Maclaren or at Ferrari. Sorry I can’t remember where I heard the rumour from. If that is true though he only had himself to blame as the mechanics can’t do their best for him if he doesn’t give them the information to work with.

Its spelled and written Mika with one K…

Anyway, Häkkinen did had more luck with the Mclaren than Kimi as the all the five years he spended in that team were constant strugling with the mechanics…Its ironical that only after the last finnish guy quits the team the reability proplems are solved.

…Thank god the days when you returned to the TV prodcast after comersial brake there’s a Mclaren smoking in the side and the reporter says “Don’t be frieghten, its only David Couthard…” are over.

The punishment should have focused so that the drivers, Alonso and Hamlinton should have been the ones that looses the points. Its far more severe than just loosing the manufacture points. It would really teach them a lessons..

….bloody Mclaren…kept making BS cars all the years when finnish drivers drove with them but now as all the finns are gone suddenly no more technological proplems:mad: 😡 :dev2: :rolleyes: 😉 :p

So Mikka Hakkinen won his world championship with a BS car did he. Iwill say one thing aboout that. The car worked as it should and Mikka drove like the person he was – a professional driver. I have to admit I admired his skill and still would if he decided to return to F1. Please forgive me if I spelt the gentleman’s names wrongly but I’m not very good with Finnish names and can’t remember how his names were spelt.
It has increasingly appeared in the past few years that the FIA is not the impartial body it’s supposed to be. If Ferrari protest it’s upheld almost without investigation – anyone else protests about Ferrari, Ferrari deny it – protest overuled and protester penalised.
Some Australian summed up a few weeks ago what the FIA now appears to be – Ferrari International Assistance.

Agreed Lewis made mistakes, but that would have left him 8th. From that position he would have been able to move back up the field to at least 4th which would have been enough. He only lost because of the gearbox problem, just bad luck, which all drivers have to contend with.

Lewis Hamilton made a bad mistake in China too…that as much as anything cost him the championship.

Mechanical failure is unfortunate but Ferrari have had their car problems also.

With regards to the fuel rule. If those teams broke the rule they should be disqualified.

With regard to the fuel issue I think the teams involved should be punished but not disqualified and I agree Ferrari would probably have made more fuss…but that’s not the way I would want McLaren (or anybody else for that matter) to behave.

Much as I would have liked Lewis Hamilton to win (and make history in the process) I think Kimi Raikkonen is the legitimate champion this year.

I don’t think this fuel issue affected the final positions on Sunday, certainly not in comparison to the mistakes that Lewis Hamilton made himself.

I’m also sure that Lewis Hamilton has a long F1 career ahead of him and am almost certain he will be world champion one day.

Well done Kimi Raikkonen you deserved it this year! 😀

I for one agree with these sentiments.

Agreed Lewis made mistakes, but that would have left him 8th. From that position he would have been able to move back up the field to at least 4th which would have been enough. He only lost because of the gearbox problem, just bad luck, which all drivers have to contend with.
With regards to the fuel rule. If those teams broke the rule they should be disqualified . You can bet that if Lewis had won the race and championship and was then found to break the rules regarding fuel Ferrari and the other teams would have screamed and screamed.
I also get the impression that many people in F1 were quitely pleased that Lewis did not win as he seemed to steal everyones thunder this year.
Lewis will win next year and many more after that, it promises to ne an interesting time to come.
Just what F1 needs.

Much as I would have liked Lewis Hamilton to win (and make history in the process) I think Kimi Raikkonen is the legitimate champion this year.

I don’t think this fuel issue affected the final positions on Sunday, certainly not in comparison to the mistakes that Lewis Hamilton made himself.

I’m also sure that Lewis Hamilton has a long F1 career ahead of him and am almost certain he will be world champion one day.

Well done Kimi Raikkonen you deserved it this year! 😀

sore looser talks:dev2: :dev2: :dev2:

Don’t count your chickens…

http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/motorsport/formula_one/7055644.stm

:diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo: :diablo:

Totally agree that F1 has lost it’s gloss.

My own personal opinion is that they should return to the rules which were in force during the time of Clark, Hill etc.

You start the race with sufficient fuel to complete the distance and four good tyres. If (due to mechanical reasons or a puncture) you have to enter the pits, then that’s just the way things are.

Jim Clark was apparently in this position in one race. Entered the pits and was lapped by the field. Exited the pits, unlapped himself and I think managed a top 5 finish.

That’s what racing should be about – who is the best driver. Not who has the best technology, or who has the best pit strategist. Just hit the green lights, travel the distance and first over the line wins.

Seems simple to my wee brain cell

Cheers

Stew

HOW RIGHT YOU ARE!!!!!!!
dakota2

Has it been proved that McLaren used any of the data that was stolen from Ferrari?, I can’t remember seeing anything in what i have read on the subject to say so, Its right that McLaren were fined and points taken from them for this but are Ferrari a innocent party?, I would say not it seems they often bend the rules the tyre situation on sunday was proof of how they act and its not the only time. I know Ferrari are a legendary name in F1 and cleary the sport does not want to upset them, The trouble is that seems to let them get away with things.

Sadly this whole situation has taken any of the remaining gloss of what was once a fine sport, This season should be something special there is a “Rookie” driver in Lewis Hamilton leading the championship and lightly to win the title, Thats something that for the sport is historic, Instead history will show it as the season McLaren were docked points for cheating and that taints whoever wins the Championship now whether its Alsono or as most of us hope Lewis Hamilton.

We can only hope next season F1 gets back to racing and not to court cases and bickering between teams and drivers, F1 can still have a good future and with young talent like Lewis involved it should be intresting, We never get back to the “Good old days” but i don’t think the sport is dead quiet yet.

Mclaren should have been fined for handling stolen goods. Not for instigating the theft ,which was a Ferrari employee action
Can it ever be proved that Mclaren actually had an advantage with having the Ferrari info?
Knowing what the other team had and actually benifiting from it could be seperate matters.

Oh and COME on Lewis you can win it YeeeHaaaa!

Ultimately, I agree with Stewarts comments in his last post, get all the drivers into identical cars with identical engines, tyres, body work, and fuel capacities, ban refuelling or tyre changes, and then see who is the best driver, not which team can develop the best car, which ultimately turns into “The team who will win is the team with the deepest pockets”.

A1GP really doesnt hit the spot despite it been of the above format. However…..

Anyone who watches the lower racing formulas will tell you that those races are often more closely fought, and more exciting to watch, as the cars are more evenly matched, and driver skill plays a far larger part in the race.

I am suprised GP2 is not broadcast live which is a shame, that is spectacular to watch!

In any big business. no one is white. But the justice is not about who steals but about who gets caught.

I accept that McLaren should be penalised for what can be seen as “handling stolen goods”, but the point that Ferarri seem keen to cover up is that it was (alledgedly) one of their own staff who actually stole the information, and not a McLaren employee. Unless there is proof that McLaren instructed/paid the Ferarri employee to/for stealing the info for them, I do not believe they can be accussed of theft.

Ultimately, I agree with Stewarts comments in his last post, get all the drivers into identical cars with identical engines, tyres, body work, and fuel capacities, ban refuelling or tyre changes, and then see who is the best driver, not which team can develop the best car, which ultimately turns into “The team who will win is the team with the deepest pockets”. Anyone who watches the lower racing formulas will tell you that those races are often more closely fought, and more exciting to watch, as the cars are more evenly matched, and driver skill plays a far larger part in the race.

Paul F

No you can’t, but if I have shown my neighbours my valuable possessions, and then leave my front door open (i.e. don’t take reasonable precautions to secure my property), is it fair to blame only the thief, don’t I have to accept some responsibility for leaving the door open?

Yes, in this case it is still fair only to blame the thief.. Homeowner not providing any precautions does not justify the thief to take anything from the house and the punishment for the thief shall be the same as if the house was kept locked. I don’t see any legal difference here.

I often leave my convertible open during summer nights, does it mean the car is now free to take for anyone?

For those who still see Ferrari as whiter than white, it was interesting to see that Ferrari were the only team who said they did not know of the race directors instruction to start on “full wet” tyres on Sunday? Was it a coincidence that Ferrari mechanics kept their cars’ tyres covered on the grid until the very last possible moment, thus preventing other teams from seeing they were running the wrong tyre type until it was effectively too late to protest? All the other teams knew about the race director’s decision, which was sent out via email in good time (I believe).

Ferrari were then instructed to stop and change tyres (or risk being instructed to withdraw both cars from the race), thus they were effectively instructed to correct the fault, thus giving them the opportunity to fuel their cars to the end of the race, whilst ostensibly following race director’s orders and correcting their “inadvertant” tyre “error”.

Had the safety car not been brought it in, then Ferrari’s action would probably have put them at the front of the field, with lots of fuel – thus effectively handing them the race while other teams had to stop and refuel.

Later, once their hoped for advantage had not materialised, some might say Ferrari did just enough to cover up their actions by staging further tyre changes and refueling stops – thus effectively preventing anyone from knowing if their cars had been carrying sufficient fuel to go on and win or not.

Would McLaren have got away with the same tyre “mistake” had they been the only ones to disobey the instruction – somehow I doubt it.

In summary, McLaren get heavily penalised two weeks ago for their (alleged) unsporting actions, yet Ferrari emerge scott-free despite apparently blatantly ignoring the instructions of the race director in Japan. Where’s the justice in that?

In any big business. no one is white. But the justice is not about who steals but about who gets caught.

I say it as a no-fan for Ferrari, McLaren got what they earned. If they want Ferrari to get the same, then they should provide some proofs for Ferrari spying on McLaren first.

Totally agree that F1 has lost it’s gloss.

My own personal opinion is that they should return to the rules which were in force during the time of Clark, Hill etc.

You start the race with sufficient fuel to complete the distance and four good tyres. If (due to mechanical reasons or a puncture) you have to enter the pits, then that’s just the way things are.

Jim Clark was apparently in this position in one race. Entered the pits and was lapped by the field. Exited the pits, unlapped himself and I think managed a top 5 finish.

That’s what racing should be about – who is the best driver. Not who has the best technology, or who has the best pit strategist. Just hit the green lights, travel the distance and first over the line wins.

Seems simple to my wee brain cell

Cheers

Stew

Who cares?:diablo:

My interest in F1 was killed years ago.
Despite my interest in Ferrari (who isn’t) and my rooting for McClaren (I have a Mercedes) it became an expensive parade with Schumacher usually in front and just a fraction of the cars (2-3 teams) having a real chance to win.
With little (sometimes no) passing whoever had the pole was going to win unless he went into a gravel trap…or had an increasingly rare DNF.
With the advent of the high tech cars, even the drivers seemed to lose their personalities…at least compared to the more colourful characters in the past.
Hardly riveting stuff.