Navy Orders Italian Minesweepers
Published 17.11.2006, 16.29 (updated 17.11.2006, 18.29)Defence Minister Seppo Kääriäinen has decided to order three minesweeping vessels from Italy for the Finnish Navy.
They will be built by the Intermarine company, which he said uses Finnish subcontractors. The deal is worth nearly quarter of a billion euros. The first ship is to be delivered between 2010 and 2012. They are to be fully in use by 2015. The ships can also be used for civilian purposes.
The leader of the Metalworkers’ Union, Erkki Vuorenmaa, has criticised the decision. He disputes the promises of Finnish subcontracting work and questions whether Italian engineers are capable of designing vessels for the cold Northern climate — citing recurring problems with Italian-made Pendolino trains.
YLE24
The ships will be build by Intermarine S.p.A in its yard in La Spezia and Like the news say, it had raiced much conversation where as our navy, traditionally relyed on domestic shipbuilding to go on for foreing desings…this is the first time since the mid 70’s purchase of four OSA-II missile boats from USSR…Also, mediterenian build ships have had rather qubitious reputation among the baltic scandinavian navies…our first MTBs where Italian build, too narrow hulled and low freeboard to our waves, as where the MBTs we bougth in WWII and also similar claims about Italian shipdesings unseaworthyness have been made on the 50’s era Italian build corvettes of the Danis navy and Spica class torbedo boats of swedish navy during the WWII.
Expecially in the case of minewarfare that is pretty much about hydrography I fear that several issues migth be overlooked by foreing contractor of what comes to our special hydrological conditions and narrow sealines. I havent manage to grasp the dimensions of these ships but everything based on that little pic (that Im not even 100% that its the ship in the case) it looks rather large boat…
..or perhaps its just my rant over the fact that money makes the decissions nowadays… :diablo:
By: wilhelm - 4th December 2006 at 13:13
Not to worry…found this….an Umkhonto SAM being fired from a finnish vessel.
By: Turbinia - 28th November 2006 at 17:48
I was only teasing. I know that in the global economy everyone owns everyone.
No probs, I consider the CVF British even though Thales (the lead designer) is French, and the “physical integrator” (pointless extra tier IMO) is KBR and American company.
By: Emgy - 28th November 2006 at 12:59
Other RR assets in Norway IIRC also include Frydenboe (making steering gear of some sort) and RR tech centres at Longva and Aalesund, all in total employing around 2500 people.
Indeed agreed on the above of course, Chantiers de l’Atlantique is now owned by Aker, and although it would be fun I don’t think one could use that as grounds for saying the PA2 is going to be Norwegian-built :). That the French gov’t didn’t step in on the sale of an important naval yard says a little. (I recall a French poster saying the reason CdG is cramped is because the unions wanted Brest to get the work. Compare the length of the Brest-built CdG with the St.Nazaire-built Foch.) Obviously in case of war, commercial ownership wouldn’t matter.
(Will be interesting to see what will happen to Alstom Marine and if the promises of no layoffs will be kept, considering their numbers were in the red. Workers in St.Nazaire should be warned that the owner of Aker is known for making his early fortunes by buying old trawlers, sinking them and then collecting the insurance – and some say he sunk them with the crew on board :D.)
By: Arabella-Cox - 28th November 2006 at 12:52
Quite agree, I was just making a point that it’s dangerous to have a go on the issue as when you look into it that particular barb is very double edged 🙂
I was only teasing. I know that in the global economy everyone owns everyone.
By: Turbinia - 28th November 2006 at 11:45
It’s not about the ownership, it’s about who makes the ships and designs them… 😉
Quite agree, I was just making a point that it’s dangerous to have a go on the issue as when you look into it that particular barb is very double edged 🙂
By: Turbinia - 28th November 2006 at 11:44
Do you have any examples?
Certainly, Rolls Royce own Ulstein, the worlds leading design house for offshore support vessels (the UT series of PSV and AHTSS types is justly revered as the “gold standard” of offshore types, they’re built all over the world) and owner of companies like Bratvag (hydraulics and deck machinery, one of the worlds leading producers of high performance winches for the offshore industry), Bergen (diesel engines) and industrial/marine electronics. Also Ulstein thrusters and manouvering systems, Tenfjord steering gear, I’m sure there is more. For those interested, the great Swedish propulsion company KaMeWa is also RR owned.
By: Gollevainen - 27th November 2006 at 18:57
It’s not about the ownership, it’s about who makes the ships and designs them… 😉
By: Arabella-Cox - 27th November 2006 at 18:11
And much of Norways marine engineering and ship design industry is owned by Rolls Royce from the UK 😀
Do you have any examples?
By: Turbinia - 27th November 2006 at 14:40
And much of Norways marine engineering and ship design industry is owned by Rolls Royce from the UK 😀
By: Arabella-Cox - 25th November 2006 at 19:45
And my name Is completely of my own invention, thougth it’s mented to sound like the Kalevala heroes and gods (Vainamoinen, Lemminkainen ect…) Actually its a charracter name in this eternity project book that Im slowly beging to write…
Cool… Finland has always fascinated me. I remember seeing a Finnish television series of Kalevala as a child.
In my own opinion, and it is just my own opinion based on my time working in offshore oil, Finnish marine equipment is as good as it gets, and I’d put Finland alongside Norway and Japan as probably the best quality suppliers out there at least for commercial maritime equipment.
Yes, and the Finnish yards are owned by the Norwegians… 😉
By: Gollevainen - 22nd November 2006 at 18:52
Finland makes good ships, but if you really want a good minehunter, then it is advised to take a ship from a foreign supplyer that has more experience with this. Or, just ask their advice or design and indeed build it in Finland. The problem with military orders is of course that they aren’t continuous. The Finnish Navy can’t afford to buy one ship every two or three years. That has been the major problem for most Western Navies. Ships last long nowadays, 20 years isn’t that much of an exception, that also means they aren’t replaced that regularily.
Golle, I’ll send you some pics of the Double Eagle and Seafox from VERY close by.
Couldn’t agree with you more. Tough I still belive that we should be able to produce at least the ship itself (without equipment) in here.
By: Tango III - 22nd November 2006 at 18:45
Navy news around the world news & discussion
ST Engineering wins S$263m deal to modify warships for Egyptian Navy
Singapore Technologies Engineering has won a contract worth S$263 million to modify fast missile craft for the Egyptian Navy.
The deal will allow VT Halter Marine, ST Engineering’s American shipyard, to procure complex materials for the modification process.
ST Engineering says contract is not expected to have any material impact on its consolidated net tangible assets per share and earnings per share for the current financial year.
The fast missile craft is designed to perform coastal patrol, surveillance, interdiction, surface strike, and naval battle group support.
The vessels span about 62 metres and are armed with various combat systems and electronic sensors. –
http://www.channelnewsasia.com/stories/singaporebusinessnews/view/242932/1/.html
By: Neptune - 22nd November 2006 at 13:26
Finland makes good ships, but if you really want a good minehunter, then it is advised to take a ship from a foreign supplyer that has more experience with this. Or, just ask their advice or design and indeed build it in Finland. The problem with military orders is of course that they aren’t continuous. The Finnish Navy can’t afford to buy one ship every two or three years. That has been the major problem for most Western Navies. Ships last long nowadays, 20 years isn’t that much of an exception, that also means they aren’t replaced that regularily.
Golle, I’ll send you some pics of the Double Eagle and Seafox from VERY close by.
By: Gollevainen - 22nd November 2006 at 13:04
Agreed. In fact we finns have quite good military producing in all areas (to compare our size) but it’s all down to political will…and knowing our politicans, the future doesen’t look good 🙁
By: Turbinia - 22nd November 2006 at 11:40
My view is that with defence there is a legitimate justification for helping domestic industry even if it costs more, to preserve the industrial base, maintain expertise and retain an independent capability to avoid becoming a hostage to foreign suppliers. Not all countries have that capability, but in marine engineering and ship building Finland does, and they should try and preserve it rather than going for a short term cost saving.
By: Gollevainen - 22nd November 2006 at 11:36
True we finns are know of high quality (and this is said without any national pride 😀 )
But the solution was purely made over economical factors, the Italian shipyard simply made more lucrative offer. It’s just capitalism, so what can we do…I do agree with you that the best solution would have been totally finnish build vessels, at least then it would theoretically be the best possiple ship to our conditions
By: Turbinia - 22nd November 2006 at 11:22
Italy builds good ships. So does Finland. If Finland buys Italian warships I imagine they’ll be perfectly good ships, but it’s still a shame to see a country with such an excellent maritime industrial base as Finland going to foreign builders. In my own opinion, and it is just my own opinion based on my time working in offshore oil, Finnish marine equipment is as good as it gets, and I’d put Finland alongside Norway and Japan as probably the best quality suppliers out there at least for commercial maritime equipment.
By: Gollevainen - 21st November 2006 at 12:50
well as all our defence branches, our navys future can raise mixed feelings. the known fact is that the two major parties are going to ride into the next elections atop the big wave of anti-NATO centiment in our sosiety, meanwhile the military keeps intergating itself into US led coalition operation like the pro-NATO decision would have been allready made. This dillema would propaply surface somewhere in the next decade when the minelayers are becoming to pensionare age and solutions would be made with foreing deplpyment in mind (we could expect something sort of the Danish multipurpose vessel type minelayer, transport, minor-threat frigate type of oddity)…who knows :confused:
And my name Is completely of my own invention, thougth it’s mented to sound like the Kalevala heroes and gods (Vainamoinen, Lemminkainen ect…) Actually its a charracter name in this eternity project book that Im slowly beging to write…
By: Arabella-Cox - 21st November 2006 at 11:26
What will the future Finnish fleet look like now, Gollevainen? I saw an item on the Discovery Channel on your new surface combatants (FACs or corvettes?) and they looked very impressive.
By the way, is your nick from Kallavalla?
By: European - 20th November 2006 at 23:13
Osprey are are based on the Gaeta class minehunters of italian navy (MMI). Some infos:
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November 17, 2006 at 6:56 pm