Firefighters strike – a review.

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

ROFLMFAO

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

rabie :9
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RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 07-12-02 AT 00:32 AM (GMT)]Reminds me about that old air traffic controllers ( government employees ) strike back in the U.S. during the Reagan era.

One of my favorite satirical comments from the comic strip “Bloom County” recorded it in the following way:

Striking air traffic controllers saying things like;

“The president will handle this. The old Gipper won’t let us down”

They gather around the TV to hear his resolution to the situation….

….”You’re fired”…

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

oh no, your quite right, there are other jobs, with other risks, I was just bringing another perspective to the post, thats all, I certainly didnt mean to be ‘heavy handed’ and i know you werent, again….another viewpoint

NP Kev35…..none meant and none taken.

coanda

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

Coanda,

sorry if I came across a bit strong. That’s the beauty of this forum, so many diverse opinions are aire that we inevitably confront our own ideas. Sometimes we change our view, sometimes we don’t. In the main everyone’s opinion on this forum is respected, I know yours are. By the way I meant no disrespect to your father.

Regards,

kev35

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

well ok kev, thats cool, your opinions and mine……

However, there are other jobs out there that really should be respected a bit more…….and who cant show themselves and the jobs they do in the same way!

nursing I believe is one of them…….

thankless sometimes immensely rewarding at others.

believe me I have lived in some holes! (not far from one now actually)

coanda

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

Coanda,

“but really none of those jobs apart from nurses in A&E and ambulance drivers really compare to being a police officer. the pressure and work load is immense.”

I’m not a supporter of the firefighters strike but there are many occasions in many areas where fire engines have to be escorted precisely because they are attacked. I believe you come from a nice rural area (I’d like to live there anyway) and perhaps don’t see this first hand.

Work loads and pressure? A bad argument. It’s not only nurses in A&E who bear the brunt of violence. Try working in an elderly care unit or with those who exhibit extreme challenging behaviour, or with the terminally ill, or in the community with those who have learning disabilities or life threatening or life limiting conditions when you are largely on your own. Or how about a child with no communication, is autistic and just to cap it all has ADHD and sleeps less than two hours in twenty-four? And those are just from my limited experience. (I might also surprise you to know that in the course of that work I was stabbed twice, had my wrist broke once, my nose twice, was knocked unconscious twice and was finally the victim of an assault which contributed to my no longer being able to work.)

“you always work, there is no sitting in offices or in station for police officers(except if/when they get to eat) unless they are seeing to a prisoner or doing paper work.”

The same applies to the nursing profession (except the bit about the prisoners). I was an undiagnosed diabetic for years, principally because my repeated low blood sugars were constantly attributed to the fact that as a nurse/carer/team leader, I rarely got chance to eat during my shifts. And now I am suffering the consequences. And as for the paperwork, that just proves their is far too much.

“I suppose you could say that you shouldnt have joined the job if you didnt want to DO the job, but then thats not the point here is it?”

That is exactly the point. If the firemen are so desperately unhappy with their £21,000 a year why don’t they leave? With the income the majority of them generate from their second jobs, why don’t they go and do something less dangerous to make up their money. If fire service pay is so poor, why is there a waiting list for applications?

I have no doubt many Police Officers do good work and are under considerable pressure, but like so many jobs, it goes with the territory.

Regards,

kev35

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

well yeah, but you get a london living allowance dont you?

its really interesting how so few of you actually use the police officers case.

OK so this is perhaps the area I know about best, my father being in the job……

but really none of those jobs apart from nurses in A&E and ambulance drivers really compare to being a police officer. the pressure and work load is immense(as being a pilot can be too- I realise that).

you always work, there is no sitting in offices or in station for police officers(except if/when they get to eat) unless they are seeing to a prisoner or doing paper work.

Police Officers cover for people like the prison service, to an extent the fire service, and the ambulance service when they all decide to go on strike, but police officers cant go on strike (by law) they have next to no means to challenge their employers in anyway, the police federation are the ‘union’ if you will for the police officers, however that is run in a way which does not provide a deal of support for police officers.

you dont often see fire men being spat at, bags of urine thrown at them, having bricks thrown at them, chasing people across rooves, having to chase car thieves down country lanes at 90 MPH in the dark, having to fight people with broken bottles, having to attend road accidents, giving life saving first aid because your the first on the scene, having to deal with murders, having to deal with armed criminals, searching for bombs, arresting dangerous people, having to break up pub fights (two against 20 odd for example)….

Shall I go on??

My father has been an ambulanceman, a prison officer, a strike breaker, ASWELL as a police officer, and this goes UNNOTICED by the general public.

I think the best way to describe this situation is with a comment I got from someone I work with….

“I gave the firemen a quid when they came into the Uni bar because they were fit….”

“would you give the police the same if they were to do it?”

” NO the police have never done anything for me”

funny really since she’d never been saved from a burning house by fire fighters either……….

I suppose you could say that you shouldnt have joined the job if you didnt want to DO the job, but then thats not the point here is it?

coanda

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

Thanks Rabie. I forgot about the cost of living. In some places ( and in London ) it must be a bit difficult.

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

Thats what I was getting at – disgraced politicians and business men getting loads while workers get nothing

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

Yes

It’s a combination of personal choice and market forces in action. If you read any of the SAS books, they all usually ditch their army issue guns and buy their own. Face it, work as a civil servant and get dumped on by return.

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 03-12-02 AT 01:02 PM (GMT)]Remuneration for employment generally rewards 2 things, skill and danger.

Doctor – skill high, danger low – pay high
Airline pilot – skill high, danger low – pay high
Sportsmen – skill high, danger low – pay high
Electricity line men – skill medium, danger very high – pay high
Firemen – skill medium, danger very high – PAY LOW!!!
Crane driver – skill low, danger high – pay high
Politicians – skill low, danger nil – PAY HIGH!!!

Why is nobody questioning why politician pay is so high rather than talking about small change (in comparison) with the firemen?

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

its 70 applicants for eacjh fire fighting post – about 40 are left
after the physical so …. }>

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elp – here goes

teachers (need degrere) earn around £23 K (5 day week but long holdiays)

nurses, paramedics, ambulance, etc – £17k (long education, shifts ,etc)

i think police are on around £22k

the average wage is somewhere around £20K to £24K ish I THINK

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

we must vearin mind that its a ntiaonl award and l little bit extra if you live in london but there is still a huge regioanl diffrence with bascially the south being very expensive and the norht and wales and scotland are verying degrees of cheaper

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

rabie :9

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

If we didnt live in a society where the ones who do the hardest work get paid the least, and the ones who sits and watch get the highest, we would have this problem.

Can anyone defend such a situation?

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

Wysiwyg.

“Let me try to put a different slant on this. The following is also completely analogous for firemen.

Some while ago a cabin crew member came into the flightdeck while I was twiddling my thumbs on a return night sector from the Mediterrannean. There was absolutely nothing going on at the time. The cabin crew member asked us if we felt guilty being paid so much for doing so little. The response was that 99% of the time we are grotesquely overpaid, however 1% of the time we are the most underpaid people on the planet. As a passenger, believe me you don’t want me to earn my money! “

I can agree with that to an extent but you forget you are doing something. You are, hopefully, monitoring the instruments and ensuring that everything is running smoothly. You don’t leave the ‘office’, get undressed and go to bed, do you?

And after you’ve ‘slept’ through your shift and the aircraft has safely landed do you then spend the next day working as a taxi driver/decorator/gardener/window cleaner?* Delete as applicable.

“I wonder how opinion towards the fire service would change if a terror attack similar in style to Sept 11th occured in London?”

I don’t disagree that firefighters are entitled to a rise, it is the conditions around it which are really causing the problems. I don’t think anyone in the country is dissatisfied with the work that the firefighters do and I have no doubt that should such an attack occur they would perform just as valiantly as their counterparts in New York.

“Do the population of NY value their fire department?”

An intriguing question. I would suspect that the people of NY value them very highly, and probanly even more so since September 11th. I have read a couple of books about Sept 11th and the one, whose title I cannot remember, suggests that they are not as highly valued by their employers. The author, a retired Captain or Chief became involved the day after the attacks and has described the total inadequacy og the personal equipment issued. He claims most firefighters purchase their own safety harnesses, ropes and even the large axe like tool they carry (halliard?) because the quality of their issued equipment is poor. I was also amazed to find that they had to buy their own food for the kitchens in the firehouses.

Reagrds,

kev35

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

Let me try to put a different slant on this. The following is also completely analogous for firemen.

Some while ago a cabin crew member came into the flightdeck while I was twiddling my thumbs on a return night sector from the Mediterrannean. There was absolutely nothing going on at the time. The cabin crew member asked us if we felt guilty being paid so much for doing so little. The response was that 99% of the time we are grotesquely overpaid, however 1% of the time we are the most underpaid people on the planet. As a passenger, believe me you don’t want me to earn my money!

I wonder how opinion towards the fire service would change if a terror attack similar in style to Sept 11th occured in London? Do the population of NY value their fire department?

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

I am curious. Could someone please post a short list of yearly earnings of other job specialties like; teachers, ( I think someone already put a figure in that other post for police; I forget ) plumbers (people that work on water systems and drains; don’t know what you call them there ) Small business owners ( like shop owners etc ) farmers. I am really curious about this whole situation now. Thanks. Hope it all turns out OK.

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

[updated:LAST EDITED ON 03-12-02 AT 01:18 AM (GMT)]Does this pay dispute include the airport fire service?

I go to either LHR or LGW at least half dozen times per month, and in the last ten years I dont think Ive seen them called out to an emergency, apart from when the Virgin A340 crash landed a few years ago.
I wouldnt mind a 40% pay rise for doing nothing, yes, yes, I know they have to be there and their job is high risk, but sometimes it seems like money for old rope.

I cant help feeling that if we all lived to our means there wouldnt be such a high cost of living.

Following on to what wysiwyg said, any union rep. would go in with a high demand, it gives a higher margin for negotiation, but the press latch on to it and very soon everyone thinks that the union’s are greedy.

Everyone deserves a substantial pay rise periodocally, but within reason, at the end of the day the firemen will get their payrise, however much it is, but it will be us , Joe Public, who’ll pay for it through our council tax, then eventually prices will start to rise, then interest rates will climb, then they’ll be back to square one.
Then the cycle starts all over again, this time with another industry trying their luck.

Dave

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

I think what Mongu says is right to an extent. Where else can you sleep through the majority of the night shifts you ‘work’. I think they may be deserving of a rise but it appears this modernisation is long overdue. The ludicrous reasons for not sharing control rooms with other emergency services just beggar belief. Gilchrist has really shot hisself in the foot due to his attempts to politicise the dispute. The other trade unions, while supporting the firefighters dispute seem less eager to support Gilchrist’s other agenda of replacing ‘new labour with real labour.’ Perhaps that is why the strike due for wednesday has been suspended?

Regards,

kev35

RE: Firefighters strike – a review.

Well here in the Isle of Man, nearly all the firefighters have second jobs which they do in addition to being firemen.

We’ve all heard stories of “striking” fireman driving taxis!

Secondly, if the conditions are so bad, why is there such a big waiting list for new recruits?

Thirdly, they are public servants. This means they will always be badly paid – just like teachers, policemen, doctors….it was their choice to enter public service.