Firefly crash

Thank’s Warbird and David for putting me right.

It could well be that the Navy has completed it’s investigation as I received a letter the other day from the board thanking my contribution as a eye witness, and this is certainley my reason for not making comments on this or any other public forum about the incident…….
I have my owns views, and being as I was, uncomfortably close to the impact I’ll wait for the investigation to be published, although in principle, I agree any incident of this nature will always provoke discussion as to probable cause, it’s human nature…..:rolleyes:

Come on everyone, for heavens sake. I know we are all pretty passionate about aviation, in particular the historic aspect but lets be united in that passion.
Everyone remotely involved in the tragic Firefly accident , whether in the industry , a pilot or a spectator will be upset by it, thats very understandable and of course emmotions will run high. I thankfully did not see the accident first hand although I have seen others, most recently at Coventry and I know the feelings you experience.
As David Burke has said in his inimitable level headed style lets not get involved emmotionally or otherwise, there are appointed expert bodies investigating the accident who will be thorough, professional and reach a satisfactory conclusion and until such time we should not publically speculate.
We should endeavour to enjoy avaition, albeit difficult at times like this, whether it be our hoby or profession and enjoy it together.

Could I just remind you that people are speculating that a pilot, through his actions, managed to kill himself and another person.

My personal opinion is that until a cause has been found it is disrespectful to both the crewmembers and their families.

OK the fact that I watched the two men die in close up and then had the footage splashed across the news against my will may be clouding my views, but I still think it is matter of common decency.

You say

“Tolerance is a fine quality that is sadly disappearing in this day & age, we have (or should have) a common bond here, Aviation, lets keep it a bond rather than a lot of individuals. “

Well what about respect.

No matter how many years you have been (paid) to be in the airshow industry as you were very keen to point out, I still think your attitude is wrong.

BTW your post on the low flying video was also idle speculation, The film Company DID NOT ask that pilot to fly low in that shot.

Why is it ‘poor taste’? Things happen in life every day, does that mean we have to waite for someone else to sort it out before we dare to comment? or is it just in aviation this happens?

I really cannot believe how this thread has developed. It is quite simply a matter of poor taste to speculate on what may or may not have happened in an accident where two people lost their lives, before the AAIB and Navy have finished their investigations.

No matter how much of an expert you are!

Ant, no offence taken.

I apologise for any offence caused by my ‘enthusiastic amateur’ phrase,but my point was that it is unlikely that any of us here are professionally involved in the investigation of this accident or the operation of the aircraft involved.I still feel very strongly that no matter how much experience we have of whatever form of aviation,there shouldn’t be suggestions made about what went wrong,even if it happenned to be correct.It simply isn’t our place to say and this forum is not the right place to say it.

Originally posted by warbirdUK
[Tolerance is a fine quality that is sadly disappearing in this day & age, we have (or should have) a common bond here, Aviation, lets keep it a bond rather than a lot of individuals.
And, by the way,Some of us DO know what we are talking about. 😉 [/B]

Touche:cool: 😎 😎 my sentiments exactly

Originally posted by Ant Harrington
We have to remember our position of ‘enthusiastic amateur’ and leave the investigation to those most capable of coming to the correct conclusion.

With the greatest of respect, You may have a position as an ‘enthusiastic amateur’ however my position is as an ‘enthusiastic professional ‘ I have over 20 (paid to be there) years with Airshow aircraft & Airshows and over that length of time you get to know when things are right & when things are marginal! I have said before on this forum that unless you personally know who is posting, you never can tell who is who, or what they do, so I think a little mutual respect is called for here rather than just discarding postings out of hand, it is not just ‘Amateurs’ who post here, maybe if people read what is written & not what they want to read then everyone may learn something about aviation & old aeroplanes. It seems sometimes that there are some very narrow minded postings like– I only like XYZ type of aircraft & hate all others, what is that all about? most of us left that back in Infants school! Tolerance is a fine quality that is sadly disappearing in this day & age, we have (or should have) a common bond here, Aviation, lets keep it a bond rather than a lot of individuals.
And, by the way,Some of us DO know what we are talking about. 😉

The Firefly would be well within it’s Cof G limits bearing in mind it’s a lightly loaded aircraft that isn’t operating anywhere near the parameters it’s allowed in operational service.
Regards your point Warbird – the discussion really has nowhere to go until a report is published. We can all picture in our minds what we think happened but it’s rather futile if proven incorrect.

Ant very true

Sorry I offended,I have no intention of upsetting anyone and of course my respects go to there family.
But you have to ask questions and give opinions.Why was there a passenger in the rear? This must have move the C/G and altered the speed the manouver could be operated..anyway as I said no offence.

Personally I think the subject is best left alone,and is certainly inappropriate for this thread.We simply can’t know what caused the accident,so no matter how much speculating we do,we can never be certain about what happenned.Leave the whole business to the investigators and await thier findings.Simple.
I was there aswell at the eastern end,and I saw the accident,but I still feel no need to comment on the incident.We have to remember our position of ‘enthusiastic amateur’ and leave the investigation to those most capable of coming to the correct conclusion.

Maybe the Forum (although I have nothing to say on the subject), but not this thread.

I believe there is (or was) a thread somewhere down the list – but the story is a little older now, and no official information has been released ttbomk.

I am at a loss to understand why so many are refraining from any comments regarding the incident. Surely that is what the forum is all about or am I missing something here?

Originally posted by David Burke
DHFAN – sorry if you don’t find me very welcoming but the subject post is specific as is the request. The Firefly doesn’t have any ‘black boxes’ to record flight parameters so the RN will have to rely on video ,inspection of the airframe and the pilots notes.
The subject has been discussed at great length – we now have to let the RN do their job and help them in any way we can.

David, as RobAnt said, my comment was aimed at oiitsme.

I also was at Duxford that day and have refrained from any comments regarding the incident.

Originally posted by warbirdUK
It’s very difficult to know who does what within aviation on here sometimes but just now & again someone who knows drops in & then back out again, smiling about the ‘so called expert enthusiast’
of course, you know who you are! 😉

I agree. I have said nothing about this accident having watched it happen and been very shocked by it. At the risk of attracting some adverse comment I do not think we should be so hard on those that are willing to comment on it as having paid our respects to the crew and their family its right and proper that considered comments are allowed to be made. I for one have felt the need to unburden my feelings amongst other enthusiasts, not being able to discuss what I experienced with my colleagues at work and refraining from posting due to some of the comments to those that have ventured an opinion or asked what happened.

I of course am not an expert or a pilot, but I have watched display flying since the mid 60’s and was always pleased to see the Seafury, Firefly and Swordfish fly together in the 80’s. I think I know when something does not look right.

I’ll finish by sharing some of my thoughts in the 60 second or so before the accident. I was watching the Firefly very closely from the eastern end of Duxford having looked forward to seeing it after such a long absence. After an impressive piece of airmanship keeping formation with the slower aircraft it broke into it’s solo routine After seeing the Firefly turn at the western end of the field I held my breath until the accident saying over and over in my head, please please don’t do that again. I can’t explain it but what happed did not surprise me but as I mentioned above it shocked me.

Originally posted by sconnor
Very poor taste, armchair expert

It’s very difficult to know who does what within aviation on here sometimes but just now & again someone who knows drops in & then back out again, smiling about the ‘so called expert enthusiast’
of course, you know who you are! 😉

I think those posts are directed at oitsme, not you David. Am I right?

It is certainly my view that oitsme has commented inappropriately.