Hi,
When do pilots normally begin selecting flaps on the 757 because when I was on approach to MAN in August, I noticed that the first stage of flaps was only selected about 5mins before turing on to finals for 06L? Also gear down was only selected late on in our final approach. I ask because some airlines/pilots begin selecting flaps and gear quite early on in there approach.
Thanks
Thomas Cook
By: EGNM - 3rd February 2004 at 00:15
oh well bemused – there always another thread to argue on 😉 – however much people like myself on the ground (even those who work in the industry think we know) the crew are the people up there flying!
Most of us here want to get there one day, but if you read the whole thread through we can see how those in command of the aircraft we anoraks fly in day in day out know what they are doing – exactly what Spotty M and Moondance have shown in this thread!!!
By: wannabe pilot - 2nd February 2004 at 17:55
Ahh I thought that might be a give away! Ah well, lucky you! For many years I had wanted to do low-level manual flying, like in little island hoppers. For example Aurigny on the little Trislanders. However, fairly recently I have found out that the pay is really bad, and not many pilots actually like it. I then decided that I’d love to fly for a charter airline, such as Monarch or Thomas Cook. Warm holiday destinations in the Summer, then snowy skiing destinations in the winter. Well, I know this isn’t everything behind it, but just a rought outline of what I’d like to do! One day though (hopefully!) towars the end of my flying career, I’d like to go somewhere such as the Antilles and fly for a little airline such as Winair. At this stage, earning lots of money will not be as necessary as it is at other points in your career. But it’d be nice for a bit of fun, a bit of what I’d really like to do.
By: Spotty M Driver - 2nd February 2004 at 17:45
The clues are there, err Spotty M. Errrr, rotating Avatar???
Flown 737’s Airbus 320/1/330. Been on the FBW type for 10 + years now, sheesh.
You got it 😀 😀
Spotty M Driver.
By: wannabe pilot - 2nd February 2004 at 17:30
Spotty M Driver, who do you fly for, and what other aircraft have you flown before? As you may have gathered I want to be an airline pilot and I just like to get as much information from other pilots as I can. Thanks 😀
By: Spotty M Driver - 2nd February 2004 at 16:16
One day you’ll get an answer right.
Ex Iberia 320 in Bilbao, severely damaged in a landing accident in 2001. Only 5 months old, but a write off. Airbus subsequently modified the ELAC’s and made recommendations for landing in very turbulent/windy conditions.
More photos on Airliners.net
Spotty M Driver.
By: Bmused55 - 2nd February 2004 at 15:45
Originally posted by andrewm
Here is that A320 actually at Liverpool??? If so who owns it as i am gonna cut out her nose 😀
No , its an Ex-Iberia 320, Nose gear colapse I beleive.
Has long since been parted out and broken up. Madrid I think
By: andrewm - 2nd February 2004 at 15:32
Here is that A320 actually at Liverpool??? If so who owns it as i am gonna cut out her nose 😀
By: EGNM - 2nd February 2004 at 15:20
However much i like winding up the scousers at work they are now quick to point out Manchester actually has a higher crime rate than Liverpool!
By: Bmused55 - 2nd February 2004 at 12:50
HA HA HA!
Standard SOP’s for all airlines flying into LPL:
Descend to 1000ft, reduce speed to 180kias, open rear doors, push pax out (sans parachute for the LOCO’s), execute go around procedure
By: Spotty M Driver - 2nd February 2004 at 12:47
Look what happened when i parked my 320 at LPL 😀 😀 😀 😀
Spotty M Driver
By: Bmused55 - 2nd February 2004 at 12:25
Originally posted by Spotty M Driver
230 kts till late on finals, delayed flaps. Well you might make a nice landing in Liverpool, but not in Manchester.Reminder. Quit whilst you are ahead….
Spotty M Driver.:p
Well, I didn’t mean 230 up to finals :rolleyes:
*thows in towel*
Lets hear your guess at this. as anyone will tell ya, I’m always open for enlightenment 😀
By: Bmused55 - 2nd February 2004 at 12:24
Originally posted by Spotty M Driver
230 kts till late on finals, delayed flaps. Well you might make a nice landing in Liverpool, but not in Manchester.Reminder. Quit whilst you are ahead….
Spotty M Driver.:p
Folk land in liverpool??!?!?!
Don’t they get their wheels knicked?
By: Moondance - 2nd February 2004 at 12:23
Originally posted by Bmused55
Thats what I mean. the Crew were instructed by ATC to fly a higher speed which did not require flaps. Ie was above the flap limit. 230knts for flap 5 on the 757 I beleive.
No – approaching the airfield, you tend to fly a speed for ATC’s convenience, initially around minimum clean speed (typically 210kts), reducing to 180kts (ish) on the intermediate approach, ending up with 160kts to 4 DME. If, for any reason you cannot comply, tell ATC early and they will adjust their plan, but it is the aircraft that cannot comply with “standard” speeds that is likely to be penalised.
By: Bmused55 - 2nd February 2004 at 12:23
Originally posted by Spotty M Driver
OK lets take this all apart.Maybe there was a BMI 330, but the 330 is no quicker on the approach than a 320/1 or 757 etc, its all weight dependent. The wing is very efficient true, but speed control is all down to good management by the crew.Its classed as a Cat C aeroplane. If it was a DC10 then they are a tad quicker over the hedge, not much though.
Next, if ATC have a sequence for landing its highly unusual to “Jump” the queue, except if its an Iberia flight in AGP, which is perfectly normal 😀 😀
Next most airlines SOP’s (Standard Operating Procedures” forbid what you are calling late flap deployment. Its normal practice to be stable and fully configured with power on at a minimum of 1,000′ above the ground, roughly 3 and a bit miles out, most achieve the requirements by 5 miles out. ATC often ask for 160knots to 4 miles, but this makes for an unstable approach, most of us do our best.
Happy to educate, but please i do have nearly 9,000 hours on Airbus and Boings, so i like to think i know what i’m doing. Perhaps WYSIWYG can chip in.
Spotty M Driver.
Don’t get me wrong. I’m not arguing. I wouldn’t even dream of it.
But what is your guess be then?
Perhaps the crew forgot the flaps :rolleyes:
By: Spotty M Driver - 2nd February 2004 at 12:19
230 kts till late on finals, delayed flaps. Well you might make a nice landing in Liverpool, but not in Manchester.
Reminder. Quit whilst you are ahead….
Spotty M Driver.:p
By: Bmused55 - 2nd February 2004 at 12:15
Originally posted by Moondance
I’m with Spotty M – quit while you’re ahead.Going into MAN (or LGW, BHX wherever), you fly the speed you are told to by ATC, whether you’re in a 330 or 757 makes no difference. I have never been “overtaken” in the approach sequence in the UK by a different (supposed slippery) type……. now if we are talking Binter in the Canaries, that’s a different story!
Thats what I mean. the Crew were instructed by ATC to fly a higher speed which did not require flaps. Ie was above the flap limit. 230knts for flap 5 on the 757 I beleive.
By: Spotty M Driver - 2nd February 2004 at 12:14
Allow to explain my thoughts about this being a fast approach:Allow to explain my thoughts about this being a fast approach:
This was at manchester so it quite possible there was a BMI 330 behind the TCX 757. The A330 is notriously fast on approach. So fast that often it jumps the que for landing. This wing on it is just so damn efficiant they can’t slow it down as well as any other pax jet.
SO……, our TCX 757 is on approach and is told by ATC to maintain a speed a little longer than usual so that Mr. BMI A330 doesn’t have to circle in a hold. consequently, The flaps are commanded at a much later time than usual.Now please, tell me whats so funny about that? Seems perfectly logical.
OK lets take this all apart.
Maybe there was a BMI 330, but the 330 is no quicker on the approach than a 320/1 or 757 etc, its all weight dependent. The wing is very efficient true, but speed control is all down to good management by the crew.Its classed as a Cat C aeroplane. If it was a DC10 then they are a tad quicker over the hedge, not much though.
Next, if ATC have a sequence for landing its highly unusual to “Jump” the queue, except if its an Iberia flight in AGP, which is perfectly normal 😀 😀
Next most airlines SOP’s (Standard Operating Procedures” forbid what you are calling late flap deployment. Its normal practice to be stable and fully configured with power on at a minimum of 1,000′ above the ground, roughly 3 and a bit miles out, most achieve the requirements by 5 miles out. ATC often ask for 160knots to 4 miles, but this makes for an unstable approach, most of us do our best.
Happy to educate, but please i do have nearly 9,000 hours on Airbus and Boings, so i like to think i know what i’m doing. Perhaps WYSIWYG can chip in.
Spotty M Driver.
By: Bmused55 - 2nd February 2004 at 12:14
Originally posted by Moondance
I’m with Spotty M – quit while you’re ahead.Going into MAN (or LGW, BHX wherever), you fly the speed you are told to by ATC, whether you’re in a 330 or 757 makes no difference. I have never been “overtaken” in the approach sequence in the UK by a different (supposed slippery) type……. now if we are talking Binter in the Canaries, that’s a different story!
do tell 🙂
By: Moondance - 2nd February 2004 at 12:05
I’m with Spotty M – quit while you’re ahead.
Going into MAN (or LGW, BHX wherever), you fly the speed you are told to by ATC, whether you’re in a 330 or 757 makes no difference. I have never been “overtaken” in the approach sequence in the UK by a different (supposed slippery) type……. now if we are talking Binter in the Canaries, that’s a different story!
By: Bmused55 - 2nd February 2004 at 11:49
don’t see how that is funny.
Then again, I see your an Airbus Captain, which means you don’t do much flying then. 😉 :p
Allow to explain my thoughts about this being a fast approach:
This was at manchester so it quite possible there was a BMI 330 behind the TCX 757. The A330 is notriously fast on approach. So fast that often it jumps the que for landing. This wing on it is just so damn efficiant they can’t slow it down as well as any other pax jet.
SO……, our TCX 757 is on approach and is told by ATC to maintain a speed a little longer than usual so that Mr. BMI A330 doesn’t have to circle in a hold. consequently, The flaps are commanded at a much later time than usual.
Now please, tell me whats so funny about that? Seems perfectly logical.
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February 1, 2004 at 1:09 am