Fleet Air Arm Losses

PM Macfire, many thanks that is truely amazing what you have dug up, Alfred Barnes is the chap!
Been rooting around myself and found out he was a Chief Petty Officer (is that Warrant Officer equiv?) who was serving on HMS Illustrious during its Bermuda cruise.
He died in a Bermudan hospital on the 21 July ’40, aged 41.
At the moment I am trying to find out if there was a link between the events of the 7th and his admission to hospital and subsequent death. This might be based on a supposition from a website that I am still trying to find, which is based on eyewitness accounts from that day.

Pagen01. Your posts about your relative dying in Bermuda is very interesting to me as I have been researching aviation in Bermuda for many years. Please let us know if you find out what caused his death. It may, as you suspect, have been as the result of injuries received when the Skuas crashed on the deck. All documents I have found say that nobody was seriously injured on the Illustrious on July 7th 1940. Keep searching.

PM Macfire, many thanks that is truely amazing what you have dug up, Alfred Barnes is the chap!
Been rooting around myself and found out he was a Chief Petty Officer (is that Warrant Officer equiv?) who was serving on HMS Illustrious during its Bermuda cruise.
He died in a Bermudan hospital on the 21 July ’40, aged 41.
At the moment I am trying to find out if there was a link between the events of the 7th and his admission to hospital and subsequent death. This might be based on a supposition from a website that I am still trying to find, which is based on eyewitness accounts from that day.

http://naval-history.net/xDKCas1940-07JUL.htm

Says illness for Alfred E BARNES

On a tangent, my inlaws are doing a family tree at the moment, and someone in their past was killed aboard HMS Illustrious in 1938 during a deck landing accident, he is buried in Bermuda.

Is this the relative?

http://www.cwgc.org/search/casualty_details.aspx?casualty=2259100

The engine fell off ….

A Skua? Surely not! :p :p

PM and XN923, many thanks for the info and really glad I posted that last sentence now. Must admit I’m not well up with the details of the event which was told to me (by non military enthusiasts), but I was sure it was 1938-39. However your knowledge and info does prove this to be wrong.
It was indeed during the work up manouvres in Bermuda Harbour, the chap was killed as a result of a deck accident (suspected a Skua, even more so now), apparently when hook came off and debris hit deck party. Like I say I don’t know events well enough, but I think he died in hospital after the event. I’ve been told that there is a website about either this event, or Illustrious’ work up. He is definatly buried in Bermuda though, thats why the story caused much interest within the family.
I will catch up with the family soon and reaffirm details.
Thanks again

There are details of the incident on John Dell’s website (in an above post), Peter C. Smith’s book (Skua! The RN’s Dive Bomber, Pen and Sword 2007) and my book (The Blackburn Skua and Roc, Mushroom Model Publications 2007), also David Wragg’s book Swordfish (about Taranto).

I have a theory that the Skua hooks broke because of the amount of use they had had – not just on Skuas. Blackburn was asked to use the same design as the Shark because the RN was withdrawing all these torpedo bombers from frontline use and converting them as land based target tugs, so there were a lot of Shark hooks going spare. The Fulmars, despite being rather heavier than the Skuas, had brand new hooks and these were enough to survive the landing.

One aircraft force landed on the Bermuda golf course. The engine fell off and was presented to the golf club.

PM and XN923, many thanks for the info and really glad I posted that last sentence now. Must admit I’m not well up with the details of the event which was told to me (by non military enthusiasts), but I was sure it was 1938-39. However your knowledge and info does prove this to be wrong.
It was indeed during the work up manouvres in Bermuda Harbour, the chap was killed as a result of a deck accident (suspected a Skua, even more so now), apparently when hook came off and debris hit deck party. Like I say I don’t know events well enough, but I think he died in hospital after the event. I’ve been told that there is a website about either this event, or Illustrious’ work up. He is definatly buried in Bermuda though, thats why the story caused much interest within the family.
I will catch up with the family soon and reaffirm details.
Thanks again

http://freespace.virgin.net/john.dell/skua_pictures.htm

Date was 7th July 1940 It was a shake down cruise- and I cannot find any casualties for this date
http://naval-history.net/xDKCas1940-07JUL.htm

that are likely

On a tangent, my inlaws are doing a family tree at the moment, and someone in their past was killed aboard HMS Illustrious in 1938 during a deck landing accident, he is buried in Bermuda.

IIRC Illustrious wasn’t commissioned until 1940. There was an incident known as ‘Black Sunday’ in June or July 1940 when Illustrious was in harbour at Bermuda during work-up and had flown off a number of Skuas and Fulmars of 806 Squadron as there was a strong enough wind. Unfortunately, the wind dropped away to nothing while the fighters were up and they had to try and land on the stationary carrier with no headwind. The Fulmars were OK as they were new aircraft and had strong hooks, but several Skuas went over the side, one collided with the island and another broke its back on landing. Was this the incident in which your relative was killed? I didn’t think there any casualties, but seems a bit much of a coincidence otherwise?

Not sure exactly want you’re wanting as it is such a wide subject. I would say that the ultimate and most satisfying way of discovering information (and pictures) on FAA accidents is to spend some time in FAAMs research library at Yeovilton. An easy way to find pictures is by Googling etc.
Deck accidents were a common and major problem, so much so that there was a debate in Parliament sometime in the late ’50s to discuss the large loss of air and deck crews.

There was a restaurant outside Padstow (Bluehills?), Cornwall, and its walls were covered in amazing framed photos of crashing deck aircraft, it turned out that the owners father was a photographer in the FAA.

On a tangent, my inlaws are doing a family tree at the moment, and someone in their past was killed aboard HMS Illustrious in 1938 during a deck landing accident, he is buried in Bermuda.

Bri

Two books you’ll be looking for. First is “Fleet Air Arm Aircraft 1939 to 1945” by Ray Sturtivant and Mick Burrow, published by Air-Britain Historians Ltd but it’s been out of print for nearly 10 years now (albeit we’re working on a fully revised reprint). Second hand copies are rare and normally command a healthy price when they do surface.

Second is “Fleet Air Arm Fixed-Wing Aircraft since 1946” by Ray Sturtivant, Mick Burrow and yours truly. It can be purchased direct from Air-Britain HERE.

All RN helicopter histories will hopefully be available this time next year.

Hope that helps.

Rgds

Lee