Fleet Command Ship

Which vessel are you talking about Wan?

PTOEIII! :rolleyes:

Ugly and overloaded with a multitude of weapon systems. Hideous! Yuck!

Which vessel are you talking about Wan?

Ugly and overloaded with a multitude of weapon systems. Hideous! Yuck! :diablo:

Arguably the Absalon wouldn’t necessarily be a bad option for basing it on. Take the Absalon and:

– put on the the Thales S1850M radar
– install a pair of 8-cell Sylver A43 launchers, quad packed with CAMM
– switch to the British main gun, i.e. either the 4.5in Mk8, or the new 155mm
– install Sonar 2087, as used on the T-23 (and probably C-1 in future)
– put in a full Flag command facility

All of this should combine to produce a pretty good command ship, at a relatively modest cost. Granted, it lacks the AAW and land attack capabilities of the originally proposed ship, but it would probably end up costing less than a T45-based C-1 (since it is basically much the same kit, plus the S1850M and command facilities; but all on a cheaper hull). In practice, you would probably use the Danish patrol frigate derivative, i.e. basically an Absalon, minus the vehicle deck, and with four instead of two diesels. This would make it capable of keeping up with the normal fleet, and capable of acting as an ASW taskforce leader (though ideally for that, I would want a bit more than just CAMM…). Four or so of these might be a good way to round out the fleet, e.g. eight each of T-45 and C-1, plus four of these for the ‘high’ end of the fleet.

For that matter, the Danish patrol frigate concept might not be an insane basis for the C-2 and C-3, albeit probably scaled down a bit. The idea of a cheap, spacious hull could be worthwhile, providing ample space for a load of MCM and maritime interdiction/patrol gear. A long production run of these ships would then allow a common C-2/-3 line, potentially using the previously mooted modular weapons/systems fit. I know these Danish ships are a lot bigger than we had discussed, but it should be possible to go scale them down a bit. A 4,000 ton scaled down version, with a pair of Wartsila 16V38 (11kW each, i.e about 15,000hp each) diesels, as used on the CVF, should be pretty darned capable.

Between the two CVF’s, two Albions and 6 T45’s the RN have 10 ships with command ships either in service or on order. Compared to the 2 Albions, two LPDs and 4 T22’s that they currently have, their command facilities will be improved, ironic considering that the fleet is decreasing in size.

Arguably the Absalon wouldn’t necessarily be a bad option for basing it on. Take the Absalon and:

– put on the the Thales S1850M radar
– install a pair of 8-cell Sylver A43 launchers, quad packed with CAMM
– switch to the British main gun, i.e. either the 4.5in Mk8, or the new 155mm
– install Sonar 2087, as used on the T-23 (and probably C-1 in future)
– put in a full Flag command facility

All of this should combine to produce a pretty good command ship, at a relatively modest cost. Granted, it lacks the AAW and land attack capabilities of the originally proposed ship, but it would probably end up costing less than a T45-based C-1 (since it is basically much the same kit, plus the S1850M and command facilities; but all on a cheaper hull). In practice, you would probably use the Danish patrol frigate derivative, i.e. basically an Absalon, minus the vehicle deck, and with four instead of two diesels. This would make it capable of keeping up with the normal fleet, and capable of acting as an ASW taskforce leader (though ideally for that, I would want a bit more than just CAMM…). Four or so of these might be a good way to round out the fleet, e.g. eight each of T-45 and C-1, plus four of these for the ‘high’ end of the fleet.

For that matter, the Danish patrol frigate concept might not be an insane basis for the C-2 and C-3, albeit probably scaled down a bit. The idea of a cheap, spacious hull could be worthwhile, providing ample space for a load of MCM and maritime interdiction/patrol gear. A long production run of these ships would then allow a common C-2/-3 line, potentially using the previously mooted modular weapons/systems fit. I know these Danish ships are a lot bigger than we had discussed, but it should be possible to go scale them down a bit. A 4,000 ton scaled down version, with a pair of Wartsila 16V38 (11kW each, i.e about 15,000hp each) diesels, as used on the CVF, should be pretty darned capable.

While this does boarder on the edge of pure fantasy, it is a good chance to point out the capabilities of certain other vessels out there that do fill this role!

Yes I agree that vessels such as what you are proposing would be very costly, not to mention very top heavy, other such vessels already in fleet service do happen to fill this role quiet easily and at a huge fraction of the price you are looking at.

Absalon class command and support ship
This idea was instilled when the Danish Navy opted for two new vessels capable of just such a role, the command facilities in these vessels is comparable to any in the USN.

Now the weapons systems may be a little on the light side compared to what you have in mind, they are capable and adequate for the job and should the need arise, you can add more.

Endurance class
These LST vessels of the RSN do hold a very capable Command and Control division in them. Again the weapons are a little on the light side for such a role, but that can be fixed especially if you cut down on the LST role by 50% if not remove it all together!

Of course there are other vessels out there that could do the job easily and at a vastly smaller amount than what you proposed perhaps a clear line of thought needs to be entailed here before you jump into something ridiculous!

I’d rather see this done in an SSGN, for a true steath command and control point, but if we’re going to go down this path I think you should be looking much more at a true all round self defending asset, and rather heavier (better armoured, each block of VLS in its own citadel), a little longer overall and with a simplified armament system, tomahawks instead of scalp, 40mm 3P guns in both twin and single mounts instead of having 30 and 35mm, 2x twin mount 155mmL52, but set forward and aft to give the maximum engagement envelope, lose the torpedo tubes, 2x CB90 instead of RHIBs hanger for 4 full sized helicopters, with 6 deployed with (3AEW, 3ASW one of each running as CAP at all times), ye s it would llok more like an old gun cruiser, but it would also be a lot more useful

With all that onboard, what need for the rest of the fleet to command 😮

I love it! Totally impossible to fund, sadly, but a great idea. In effect, it is pretty much what the American Aegis Cruisers (Ticonderogas) were intended as. During the ’80s (and even during the Gulf War I seem to remember), many battlegroup commanders opted to operate from the cruiser, instead of the carrier. This allowed them to have a much clearer picture of the tactical situation, much better than the carrier’s facilities could provide.

For the RN, it could actually be done pretty simply – take the Type 45, and turn it into the larger Global Cruiser, but a little bigger. Increase the VLS cells, perhaps with a second batch of VLS cells amidships (2 x 64 cells, or at least 64 fore and 32 aft); this allows a mix of Aster 30, Scalp Naval (or Tomahawk if that becomes possible) and CAMM. Increase the command facilities, and just generally turn it into a command cruiser. I wouldn’t even bother adding a second gun, since this would be a more major change (and take space away from the VLS cells)…

Such a ship could effectively have been built as a sub-variant of the T-45 – have three versions, with the Global Cruiser (4ish), T-45 (8ish), and slightly smaller C-1 (8-12ish?). There are some nice illustrations of these on Richard Beedall’s excellent site (http://navy-matters.beedall.com/mvd.htm). This would give the RN the ability to form up four very large battle groups, i.e. carrier and amphibious groups.

The obvious alternative would be to build a series of ships, perhaps based on a variant of the MARS project, Bay class, or a RoRo. These could be used for all the other roles, e.g. aviation repair ship, hospital ship, command ship, and aviation training ship. The command ship would probably not have the long range radars, but instead rely on datalinks from the whole fleet to put together the picture.

A few comments concerning the air wing and its infrastructure. Which helos are those? They look like eh101s to me. If so, the helo deck might not be large enough for two simultaneous operations. On the other hand, its definitely too big for a single helo to use. Perhaps switching to a smaller helo, say nh90, might help. Or lengthening the helo deck to some 60-65 meters.

Also, if there’s just three helos, it might not be needed to have two landing spaces for helos. there would probably be very little need for simultaneous ops with just three helos.

Since there’s no room for four helos in the hangar, may i suggest getting rid of the asw helicopter? Let that burden befall the other ships in the fleet, surrounding the command ship. And use three aew helos on the command ship, as that way you get at least some kind of useful rotation of the helos on station. With only two aew helos, you wouldn’t be able to move them away from the ship and youd wear them out so quickly that you’d definitely have a gap in the rotation and therefore radar coverage in a matter of a day or two.

Frosty,

Completely, absolutely and utterly absurd!. On the basis of the pitch, tone and duration of the squeal that the beancounting gnomes in Whitehall would let out on seeing this though – I love it!.

Actually after conversion Tiger only had 2 x 6″ and 2 x 3″ guns, the aft guns were replaced with the Hanger.

ah, forgot they only had one forward turret. 😉

Remember the minotaur had two forward. 😛

Actually after conversion Tiger only had 2 x 6″ and 2 x 3″ guns, the aft guns were replaced with the Hanger.

A little like the large Russian missile cruisers isn’t it 😛

Its also very function in terms of role and armament to HMS Tiger.

HMS Tiger final armament was something like:
4 sea king ASW
4 6″ gun in twin turrets
2 3″ guns in twin turret
2 sea cat launchers
plus assorted small caliber weapons.

Of course since this is pure fantasy we can make the two ships direct replacements for the Invincible class.

20,000t, two ships
through deck cruiser
Role: ASW & MCM command ship (for commanding ASW and MCM of C2/C3 flotilla)
Secondary Role: LPH
Weapons:
10*8 cell VLS (64*Aster 30, 64*Quad Packed CAMM, All cells are Sylver A70 so you can remove AAW missiles if you need to carry SCALP N)
Aircraft:
Up to 20 Merlins (ASW and MCM variants)

Build two ships without the VLS as the primary role LPH’s, secondary role them as ASW & MCM command ships.

Can we call it the HMS Tiger? or do we have to call it HMS Kirov?

A little like the large Russian missile cruisers isn’t it 😛

Hi, I’m not sure who i’m meant to give credit to because all the “Things that help drawing” don’t have any artist names on them

Hi, I belive MConrads ment that if you have used some of the orginal Shipbucket ship drawings, they should be credited properly. If however, you have drewn the ship from the start and only used the charts for equipment, then naturally no extra crediting is needed.

And for shipbucket community’s behalf I must apoligize if we tend to be bit “jumpy” over these things, but recently our copy rigths have been violated by even offical publications, so I beg for understanding.

Gollevainen

Can we call it the HMS Tiger? or do we have to call it HMS Kirov?

Holy C**P

I can’t see the MOD going for a 21st Century battleship though.

Wouldn’t a more sensible option be for something like an extended T45 with command facilities and additional VLS cells, like the Medisum Sized Vessel Derivative concept?

Hey,

if using shipbucket drawings please pay respect to the original artists and credit the picture accordingly.

Thanks.

Hi, I’m not sure who i’m meant to give credit to because all the “Things that help drawing” don’t have any artist names on them

Hey,

if using shipbucket drawings please pay respect to the original artists and credit the picture accordingly.

Thanks.