Floatplane gliders

In ‘Lakeland Aviation and Airfields of the 20th century’ by Ken Davies – Regional publications, Freshwater, Isle of Wight – see pages 28 & 29 – states that that the experiments with the Falcon glider were a great success and it seems that an idea of using them in clandestine operations started the experiments.

My books are packed at the moment but it sounds like the same story that the son of one of the experimenters told me some time ago. The trouble is, it sounds more like a round the dinner table conversation than real history. Why would the Air Ministry entrust such a project to two skilled enthusiasts and a joinery workshop in the Lake District rather than one of the aviation firms with flying boat experience? I await coroboratory evidence before attaching too much weight to it. However, don’t let that distract too much from the story of the glider which is fascinating – and it survives.

Also the glider is still in the Windermere Steamboat Museum along with another exhibit – the oldest working RR aero engine in the world from one of the earliest airships!.
Would be interested to hear from anyone who has been in there.

It is a lovely little museum and well worth a visit but, unfortunately, closed at the moment for refurbishment. The Rolls Royce Hawk engine in Canfly hasn’t been run for a while and will have lost its title as the oldest working for the moment. I do hope the new team running the museum are able to get some of the boats back into working order, including Canfly.
And it would be nice to see something fly from the lake again – it has been a while.

I saw one of these on display when I visited The Helicopter Museum at Weston-super-Mare a few weeks back. As I recall the ‘boat’ part was more like a punt (square ends) and it simply had a cabane bolted to it with the rotor head on top. I took photos – but not developed yet 😮
The figure of eight built/sold springs to mind (in kit form?) but can’t remember whether the new owners had to supply their own hull.

Roger Smith.

…………..I am sure that someone more proficient with photoshop than I am could come up with some wonderful images of rowing boats and punts with rotor heads and blades attached being hauled skyward by motor boats!

Don’t forget rotary-wing gliders…
Benson marketed (plans & kits at least) a boat towed unpowered gyrocopter in the 60s.
It looked like a rowboat with a rotor.

I saw one of these on display when I visited The Helicopter Museum at Weston-super-Mare a few weeks back. As I recall the ‘boat’ part was more like a punt (square ends) and it simply had a cabane bolted to it with the rotor head on top. I took photos – but not developed yet 😮
The figure of eight built/sold springs to mind (in kit form?) but can’t remember whether the new owners had to supply their own hull.

Roger Smith.

LAKE WINDERMERE GLIDER

In ‘Lakeland Aviation and Airfields of the 20th century’ by Ken Davies – Regional publications, Freshwater, Isle of Wight – see pages 28 & 29 – states that that the experiments with the Falcon glider were a great success and it seems that an idea of using them in clandestine operations started the experiments. Also the glider is still in the Windermere Steamboat Museum along with another exhibit – the oldest working RR aero engine in the world from one of the earliest airships!.

Would be interested to hear from anyone who has been in there.

Cheers Brian Doherty

Manchester Library has Sailplane and Gliding – but only the current year and previous year, no historic collection. I’ll try the editor – ta.

I will check and see if they are in the Manchester Library otherwise it would probably mean going to the British Library – unless somebody has a bundle of them at home?

Whilst I don’t know what Manchester Library has, I understand that the editor of S&G has one of the most complete runs of the magazine covering the period 1930 to date (but, apparently, even this is not complete). Thus an enquiry of the BGA at Leicester might offer the most rewarding way forward. I hope that this helps.

You’re too kind but no, I haven’t checked. One of the downsides of living in Cumbria is access to that type of archive collection in the local libraries.

I will check and see if they are in the Manchester Library otherwise it would probably mean going to the British Library – unless somebody has a bundle of them at home?

Just a thought – and probably Pondskater has thought of it already – but was any coverage given in ‘Sailplane & Glider’ to the activities of the Water Falcon during the last war or does the period covered by its activities coincide with the three years during WW2 when S&G ceased publication? I assume that ‘Gliding’ magazine had not commenced publication at the time the Water Falcon was active and so no coverage would be found there. Perhaps if someone has copies of S&G from this long ago they might care to peruse those from the relevant period and comment?

Here’s the photo from the ATC Gazette.

Dave 🙂

Thanks for the date – always good to have, as will be the other photo. Meanwhile one from me.

It’ll certainly be interesting to see the further photo of the Water Falcon in flight!

I have just found my original copy of the ATC Gazette Vol 111 no 4 april 1943 priced 6d. The last post was from a photo copy in did for Chris Wills of the VGC. So i did not know the date. There is another photo of the Falcon flying on the next page, but i cant get it to down load. So i need my son’s help again before i can show you.

Dave :confused:

I’m almost tempted to say that it would have been a sin to bolt a glider launching winch to a 1930s Chris-Craft – but it was wartime.

There was a Chris Craft race boat “Jane” in the Windermere steamboat museum (closed for a major rebuild), beautiful polished timber, I could never put a drill to that.

Allan, do you know which model of Chris-Craft Sir Charles Raven’s ‘Moana’ was? The vessel which appears in the photographic heading to the ATC Gazette article appears to be much smaller, which would make the attachment of a viable winch seem less practicable

No. The ATC Gazette photo is the only one I’ve seen showing the boat. Others may survive – I’ve recently made contact with a new lead to explore. The best I got on the size of the boat was that it seems to have been chosen for its powerful engine, which was, I was told, more powerful than “Jane’s” engine.

Of course, it is possible that the second set of flights, reaching 1,200 feet, might have used a different boat to the one in the photo? That is pure speculation on my part but I do know the photographer, Frank Herbert, was very well trusted for his aeronautical photos in the region and would have been allowed access to the first flight. Lets, with some justification, assume that photo is part of the set which shows the first attempts.

And finally, Allan, the ATC Gazette article might give reason to suggest to the publisher a second edition of your book! In the meantime, do you want to tell us more about the book – publisher, publication date and more?

We’ve already had that chat even though the book only arrived in my local shop yesterday. Research is a continuous process, occasionally punctuated by publication. That article might only add a paragraph but perhaps other info will surface too. The Glider is only half a chapter in the book (the other half is on the Shetland which visited Windermere and would have been built there if ordered). Details are at: http://www.mmpbooks.biz/books/w9107/w9107p.htm

Allan

I’m almost tempted to say that it would have been a sin to bolt a glider launching winch to a 1930s Chris-Craft – but it was wartime. However I’d hazard a guess that it would have been far from easy and not the most practicable approach to have attached to a Chris-Kraft a winch along the lines on which I speculated in my last post.

Allan, do you know which model of Chris-Craft Sir Charles Raven’s ‘Moana’ was? That might help to make a more intelligent guess as to the winch set-up. If it was one of the larger six seat ‘runabouts’, then attaching a glider launching winch might have been possible even if not pretty. The vessel which appears in the photographic heading to the ATC Gazette article appears to be much smaller, which would make the attachment of a viable winch seem less practicable

And finally, Allan, the ATC Gazette article might give reason to suggest to the publisher a second edition of your book! In the meantime, do you want to tell us more about the book – publisher, publication date and more?

G-ASEA – that article is the first significant new information I’ve seen on the glider for perhaps ten years. Thanks!

It shows more flights, and more sucess, than was previously revealed and, being a first hand account from the pilot, is wonderful – shame the book has just been printed but new material is always welcome.

In the article Wakefield describes two separate occasions that flights took place. It seems the first experiments were reported by The Times . The later flights were more sucessful, in terms of height gain.

Going back through my interview notes, the speedboat used was an American built Chris Craft called Moana borrowed from Sir Charles Craven. It was typical of the type of powerful boats appearing on the lake immediately pre-war.

No info on the winch though.

Allan

Don’t forget rotary-wing gliders…
Benson marketed (plans & kits at least) a boat towed unpowered gyrocopter in the 60s.
It looked like a rowboat with a rotor.

Would have got very exciting if there was a cable break

found a photo copy of the article from the ATC gazette

It was not easy to read the article but it was well worth the effort of doing so. It is fascinating to read the information about the launch effected by the winch equipped speedboat. My regret is that it gives tantalisingly little detail about the launch mechanism and procedure. I’d love to have more information about – and, better still, photographs of – these, but I suspect that I will wish in vain!

It’s interesting that the article bears out my suspicions relating to excessive weight in the launch cable (either per se or as a result of waterlogging) pulling the water glider down into the water. Obviously for the writer of the article his launches and flights were very much trial and error. If an initial short length of launch cable produced the best results and, on one flight, a launch height of 1200 feet was achieved before cable release, the winch on the speedboat must have been able to pay out the cable whilst the glider made a steep climb to keep the cable under full tension.

If one considers modern glider launching winches and the probable size of a lakes’ speedboat in the 1940s, I doubt that those two would have gone together easily. So presumably the winch on the speedboat would have been much smaller. However it must have had at least 1200 feet of cable on the drum and been equipped, and powerful enough, to pay out and pull in the cable. If no-one knows with what sort of winch the speedboat was equipped, would anyone care to offer an intelligent guess?

found a photo copy of the article from the ATC gazette

A rather grainy photograph I’m afraid (Why are all the interesting AFEE photos I have grainy?) of a Hotspur about to touch down on Tatton Mere.

Later tests with the main undercarriage attached (unlike this photo) resulted in the whole cockpit breaking away :eek:[ATTACH]170361[/ATTACH]

I’ve got all the photos from the test somewhere. The damage the second glider too was pretty devastating! 🙁