Flybe pilot sponsorship.

I want to go in for it but its a pity im only 13!

Matthew, that is almost exactly what I am hoping to do. I’m going to do Maths and Physics at A-Level, then go and do a degree in aeronautics. It is one of the hardest degrees to do, but is well worth it in the end. If I do a masters degree it will be a 4 year course, with a gap year in between where I get the chance to go and experience aeronautical work with someone like Virgin or BA.

I was hoping to do this because although my ultimate aim was to be a pilot, if all goes wrong then it leaves me something to fall back on, and I could go and work for someone like Airbus or Boeing.

Great minds think alike 😀

To become an airline pilot there is no necessity to hold any particular qualification other than passes in the Licensing Authorities exams (i.e. the ATPL ground and flight training). It is undeniably advantageous to have studied certain subjects, such as Maths and Physics to as high a level as possible before, purely because it will make the mathematical and scientific aspects of the course less demanding and more familiar when they appear. The actual level of mathematical skill required in the actual flightdeck is relatively low (although the ability to do a bit of mental arithmetic is a distinct advantage) and I wouldn’t be caught dead without a calculator in my breast pocket for checking loadsheets, etc! The best example of how people can succeed if they have the desire is a mate of mine who used to be a lorry driver for a dairy company in Sussex. He left school with no qualifications but a deep desire to fly. He bummed his way through the light aviation scene and managed to get a commercial license. He joined AirUK as a F27 FO working up to become a F100 Captain before leaving a few years ago to take up his present position as an A300 FO with Monarch.

The difference with this situation is that we are not talking about someone arranging their own training but a sponsorship. Now the entry requirements are those chosen by the sponsoring airline in order to provide an initial cut down in numbers from those that apply. The requirements they state are, however, just a a guide. For example, in the mid-80’s BA asked for A levels in Maths and Physics. My brother applied with A levels in English, French and Economics but that didn’t stop them from selecting him and turning him into the BA skipper he is today. Who knows what he would have been if he had read the advert to the letter of the law.

On the subject of A levels, I agree with both sides. Any individual is only as educated as his highest level of achievement. When studying for O levels (in my day) they seemed like the hardest thing ever and meant everything. However when I did my 3 A levels the O levels suddenly didn’t seem so important. If you go on to do a degree (something which will only be permitted due to the important A level results) it will be the degree that gets you a job in your desired field rather that your A levels themselves. Similarly Martin has used his GCSE and AS successes to get himself on a course that will provide him with the qualification that will employ him for life. Fortunately an ATPL is so highly revered that in the event of a lost medical I would hope that many employers would be prepared to put their faith in someone that has trained and worked to such a high standard. Training for an JAA ATPL is equivalent to completing a 3 or 4 year degree course in 1 year, which explains why the schools are now very choosy as to who they let join. They don’t want you to remortgage your house and waste tens of thousands of pounds if there really is no chance of success. That is in itself the sign of a responsible college and a big improvement on how the colleges were a few years ago.

I think my advice to all of you is to get yourself educated to at least A level standard (unless you have specific reason to do something else) as A levels are the starting point for proper educational recognition.

I have a view on applying for jobs that equates to education and employment –

A CV gets you an application form, the application form gets you an interview, the interview gets you the job. Each step is individual and it is rare to leapfrog a stage or two. For example, no proper job is ever given on the basis of an application form but only after a proper interview.

Similarly, GCSE’s let you decide which A levels to take, A levels let you qualify to a university for a degree, the degree is the qualification that turns you into a professional person. I can’t think of any profession where you become a professional with no higher qualification than A level.

Sorry guys I just reread T5’s last post and he is 100% correct, staying in A levels is very much the thing to do unless you have secured a place at least at a training school. I can’t pretend I’m not taking a big risk here, but it is a risk I’m willing to take.

However, stay in school people and get those grades! BTW I haven’t made a final decision on leaving yet. I’m just looking at doing it on the advice of my Career Development officer at OAT.

T5, with all due respect you are wrong! My Career Development officer at OAT, several pilots I know and the aforementioned airline selector have all informed me that there is no such requirement UNLESS a pilot is applying for sponsorship. I am not stupid, I would not leave without looking at my prospects and if you look at the likes of Ryanair, easyJet and indeed BA not one of them even mentions A levels or GCSEs for direct entry pilots. I speak on good authority, I’m sorry if that sounds rude, but it’s true.

If you don’t complete your A Levels, how will an airline employ you? Most of them (if not all), request 2 A Levels in order to gain employment with them.

If you can get your dream jobs without A Levels, then waste no time studying for them. For others, they’ll certainly need to continue education in order to stand any chance.

Best of luck anyway. 😉

T5, please forgive me if you think I’m rubbishing A levels, I really am not. However I wouldn’t say A levels are everything, far from it. In the case of two candiadate for one job I have been told by the best possible person who could give me advice (an airline selector who shall remain namless) that they will look at the best qualified in terms of aviation results, then personality wise (in fact this is usually comes before who has the best aviation results), then on the sim check. If you look at http://www.gapan.org/career/survey.htm you’ll see that the airlines said that education is only the 7th most important factor taken into consideration. This decision is my own, but was made on the advice of teachers and aviation professionals, I therefore feel that it is unfair for you to cast judgement on my decision as you did in your example.

I think there is a very worrying belief in the UK that exam results are everything, this puts undue pressure on people such as myself, LGKR and T5 and gets us into a rut thinking that we have to be the best or we are nothing. My main concern of leaving before A levels is only that I will be seen as a ‘drop out’, when in fact as I have been told continually by my teachers of all people that I am in fact just taking the next step to further my career.

LGKR (Lee I presume :D) I would love it to be an Elation 737 but I don’t think that’s going to happen anytime soon 🙂 Maybe when I retire!!

thanks for the advice everyone. i am doing media studies AS because i was told it was an interesting subject (and it is), but i have no aim to follow that sort of career (sorry if it sounded that way). i am aiming towards a career on the flight deck.

one of the main problems that i face is my height(along with the work involved). i am quite tall for my age – a little over 6ft and i just wish that i can stop growing. why does a commercial pilot have a height restriction? ok i can understand why a fighter pilot has a height restriction, are airliner cockpits really that small?

thanks,
adam

Originally posted by bmi
Martin dont worry LGKR usually makes his comments nasty etc on purpose. Forget him we know who to believe!

Personally, I can’t see anything nasty with the post. Seeing as I am in practically the same sort of educational status as LGKR, I think he is expressing an extremely valid point.

A Levels are everything!

It’s another recognised qualification which can be crucial when it comes to further education and employment. Sure with you, Martin, if an airline has one vacancy and there are two possible candidates (one who has completed GCSEs and the other who has completed GCSEs and A Levels), it’s just about obvious who they will choose.

As for you, Adam, stick with media! That’s my new, chosen career path and I’ve studied GCSE Media Studies, AS/A2 Media Studies and am now doing a HND in Media (Moving Image) at College. This course lasts 2 years and the 3rd year, if you want it, is a BA (Hons) degree. I’ve been doing the course for just 3 days so far and am having to pay for it, but it’s an extremely enjoyable course and a practical one too.

Adrian,

Depending on what tier you do the pass grade is different. For example a CD/DD in Double Award Science is a fail because it if the highest level you can do now. Modular Scienece would be a pass at E but your right that Employeers would not really look at this.

Also I think for most Aviation related higher paid jobs (Aero Engineer, Pilot, ATC etc) you need to pass Scienece usually at Double Award Level and Physics at AS/A Level would be a definate one if you arnt as lucky as Martin!

Originally posted by martin_EGTK
Saab, GCSEs generally have to be above C grade to be considered. I have 9 GCSEs and 3 A(S) levels and in the last few days on the advice of many pilots, school teachers and my career development officer and head of my course at OAT, I’ve decided to start at OAT in January, thus leaving before my A2 levels.
.

I thought so….I know a pass is up to an E but no employer really looks at anything below a C I am told. I am not really interested in being a pilot but I was just wondering what you needed.

didnt mean for it to be hurtful martin, i really didnt!! perhaps we both phrased some sentences incorrectly :-p

wish you every success with the flight school, i know its a life-long dream for you!! Would be a double whammy flying an Elation 737 though huh!?! 😀

oh and bmi, i think you’ll find i was putting a point across! lol

Martin dont worry LGKR usually makes his comments nasty etc on purpose. Forget him we know who to believe!

Adam, there’s no harm in taking a look at the flight schools now. It very much depends on how you are finding your A levels. As I said above I’ve taken a very drastic step with some risk to it, but I have only done this as I’ve secured a place at flight school.

If you are enjoying A levels, or you can wait nine months then carry on. It is by far and away the best option to finish them if you don’t know where you are headed. In the mean time keep a look out and carry on researching your options, if the time comes that you feel you can safely go on to something with out your A levels, give it great thought and then if you are 100% sure, and only if you are 100% go for it. I do by no means suggest leaving before you get your A levels, as LKGR says, they are very important. Only leave if you have secured what you are going on to.

What area of aviation are you looking to go into?

i’ve just began my AS level courses in Media Studies, Design, English Language and ICT at 6th Form. i have got 9 good GCSEs under my belt, i just don’t know what to do next (and now) to head towards an aviation career. could any of you guys help?

thanks,
Adam

LGKR, I found your comments slightly hurtful. As I said I’m going on what I have been told by numerous pilots, teachers and others in the airline industry. Please don’t think for one minute that I am rubbishing A levels, that is not the case, in fact looking back on what I said, I probably phrased it wrong.

However, for the industry I am entering I now have what I need. I’m into one of the best flight schools in the world (If that sounds arrogant I’m sorry I really don’t mean it to) and now I need to concentrate on my aviation qualifications. There is no point on me carrying on for nine more months on totally unrelated subjects. I may at a later stage take up my A levels again, but for now I have what I need and I’m going in the direction I want to take.

Thinking about every option is something I’ve done for years. Of course I wouldn’t just leave school without having thought of such things. But I’ve been presented with a wonderful opportunity to achieve my lifes dream years before I anticipated and I can pick up my A levels later on down the line if I wish.

[i] A levels don’t hold much value apart from university enterance requirements and a few jobs. Within the airline industry your grades at your ATPL (bearing in mind that you must have got into flight school first) are what the airlines will look out.[/B]

wow!!! don’t agree with the first bit mate, not at all!

If A levels didnt hold much value apart from going to university and getting a few jobs then why do so many stay on at colleges and sixth forms the country over? Similarly, why are vocational course qualifications now classed as being multi-alevel grade equivalents when heading off to the likes of UCAS and onto CV’s?

Having just got 5 AS grades under my belt in the summer, albeit one of them a General Studies grade, I’ve felt i’ve had to let several opportunites pass me by. They might have sounded good for the present but thinking 10 or 20 years down the line I know i’d have wished I’d finished the A levels i’d started.

Ofcourse if you feel like you don’t want to complete them, what can i do or say!? just make sure you think about every option, bearing in mind you have 3 half a-levels under your belt mate! :rolleyes:

LGKR

Saab, GCSEs generally have to be above C grade to be considered. I have 9 GCSEs and 3 A(S) levels and in the last few days on the advice of many pilots, school teachers and my career development officer and head of my course at OAT, I’ve decided to start at OAT in January, thus leaving before my A2 levels.

HOWEVER…..I would not recommend this!!! The only reason I’m doing it (And I’m not wanting to sound arrogant or blow my own trumphet) is because I’ve secured my place at an exceptionally young age and my course director believes that I am capibile of getting my ground school out of the way quickly and with decent marks.

A levels don’t hold much value apart from university enterance requirements and a few jobs. Within the airline industry your grades at your ATPL (bearing in mind that you must have got into flight school first) are what the airlines will look out.

At 17 years old I’m making a huge step, and hopefully the right one, but having said that I wouldn’t advise it :D.

Jesus why do I have to be 17!!!

3 more years to go!

I got 7 GCSE’s and am studying A Level (and AS) Physics, Maths and Computing.

I am poss going to do Aeronautical Engineering but if I got into a Pilot Scheme I would just go for that!