Flying for Fun-Kemble Rally

It might be most useful if those that post to this development in the thread could say whether or not they are –
1. Now PFA members
2. Were PFA members in the past
3. Are not PFA members and never have been
4. Did they attend FlyingForFun in 2005

1 – No
2 – Yes
3 – N/A
4 – No

As as grubby spotter it time for my 1/2’p worth. Was a member from late 80’s to early 90’s but gave up once members had to pay to get in to the rally and membership got up to silly prices. Been to every rally since 1983.
Once again this year, as others have said, was same old, same old. Not what it had been billed to be. Ok the weather was poor, again, but still not a patch on Cranfields of the late 90’s(Conne, daks, Bristol Freighter, An2’s etc). It has got far too narrow in its content. Homebuilts now are very nice aircraft to fly but boring to look at. One Europa and Vans looks like the next. In the days of Luton Minors, Furys, Nippers, Evans etc you could see that somebody actually built it not just put tougher a big airfix kit.
For me the trade show is not waht it should be about. We should go back to the days when the trade area was largely made up of part finished aircraft show by their owners. Also if you want the general public to come and look about learning to fly etc why not go back to charging seperate prices for airside(say £20) and exhibition only(£10?)? On the flyin front it seems to be the attitude of just expecting aircraft to turn up because its the PFA rally. How about actually inviting groups from abroad? How about the KZ club, the Belgian Stampes, tiger, etc that turn up at Aerofair of the Spanish club from cautro Venitos? Air Britian have done it for their flyins and it has been sucessfull.
Personally the 6 An2’s and the other 30 odd foriegn aircraft at Fowlmere this weekend for Legends were far more interesting than the PFA rally !

1) No
2) No
3) Yes
4) Yes (see pics)

It might be most useful if those that post to this development in the thread could say whether or not they are –
1. Now PFA members
2. Were PFA members in the past
3. Are not PFA members and never have been
4. Did they attend FlyingForFun in 2005

Trapper 69

1) No
2) Yes
3) –
4) Oh no.

Explanation.

I joined quite soon after joining the ragwing (PA22) group.

I left because of the interminable in-fighting and self obsession related to the running of the organisation, and because it actually seemed to do little for me and my CofA type.

There is not enough of interest to me at the F4F to persuade me to chance my life in very crowded airspace with an unknown skills mix in my aircraft which has very restricted vision. Certainly wouldn’t want to drive in.

IMHO AOPA is a better organisation to belong to for ‘my type of flyer’ though that one is a long way from perfect.

Moggy

Skybolt
FYI I am:
1. No
2. Yes (for a few years – I left for reasons below)
3. –
4. No, however, I used to work the rally (when a member about 5-6) and attended 13 in succession and have attended several others.

As a non-pilot (and realistically never going to be) I felt I didn’t get anything really for my money (except a magazine) especially when they started to charge for me to go to what in some ways was “my” rally. I felt in some ways I was paying for those who used the engineering/flying side of it (rightly or wrongly).

Good idea.
1 Yes
2 15 years
3 –
4 Flew in

It might be most useful if those that post to this development in the thread could say whether or not they are –
1. Now PFA members
2. Were PFA members in the past
3. Are not PFA members and never have been
4. Did they attend FlyingForFun in 2005
This would make the feedback more capable of meaningful analysis and subsequent presentation to those in the PFA with the power to change things.
Your cooperation would be much appreciated.
Kind regards,
Trapper 69

Oddly enough, it could be a good thing. If the event goes ahead, it will rattle some cages, and probably compel the PFA to have a major re-think about what they are trying to achieve with their own rally.

If the PFA has again chalked up a substantial loss, it is not an option to keep going back to the same flawed recipe- there is a vocal body of opinion which would opt for in essence a large fly-in for the members, keeping costs down and not expecting, or depending upon high numbers of the paying public. It is striking that a frequent obsevation about this and previous rallies is that the highlight was meeting up with old chums, and the rest was just a side-show.The harsh reality is that small homebuilt and kit aeroplanes are simply not very interesting to the public at large, whose preference is for fast, noisy, ones.

Without wishing to raise too many issues, perhaps it is also time to drop the ‘Popular’ in PFA ; it sounds anachronistic , a throwback to the 1930’s and the Popular Peoples’ Front of Tooting or wherever. Keep it simple, and just go for Private Flying Association, in the same way that the Confederate Air Force turned into the Commemorative Air Force.

Janie,

At the risk of banishment into outer darkness by the presently email deprived PFA, here is the information you have requested.

AEROEXPO 2006 will be at Booker on 23/25 June 2006. Organised by Paddy Casey who is a longtime GA exhibition organiser of huge repute from his North Weald days and before that at Biggin and West Malling. Admission 5 GBP with voucher and, presumably, 15 GBP without. Online registration at www.expo.aero.

I must protest at them nicking the EXPO name from the Barnstormers Flying Circus whose combined model/full size exhibitions and airshows at Sywell/Leicester and Cranfield are of fond memory.

The choice of date will terminate virtually any chance of the PFA having any worthwhile aviation exhibitors other than those specifically aimed at the homebuilder market. This does assume the PFA stick to their traditional date of the first weekend in July. To have a major new show a week ahead of the PFA event would stop the latter in its tracks in terms of exhibitor revenues.

I really wonder what will happen? No doubt there will be innumerable posts on the subject. What do you think – dispassionately please.

Cheers,

Trapper 69
:confused: :confused: :confused: :confused: :confused:

Trinny/Ozplane: Do either of you know the date of the Booker/Wycombe 06 show? Who is the organisational body for that? Any other details available yet?

There was a very amusing write up of the PFA rally several years ago in the US magazine. An American couple who had no idea that spotters existed (I think spotting outside of the U.K. is almost unheard of) told of their experience as the got out of their “plane” at the rally. It left them totally bewildered as they were surrounded by obsessed non-aviators with dictaphones. Trinny would have guffawed.

final batch

more pics

just a few pics from the FFF rally

Moggy,
My chance to have a twosome with Sean Maffett at Duxford was an effective way to get the point over on the EU liability insurance problems for the heavier warbirds and other heritage aircraft. Glad you thought it worked. We shall see.
There was always a queue waiting to sign the petition on the “Sally B” stand at the western end of the market line. So many airshow afficionados really do care and want to play their part in getting the imposition removed as soon as is humanly possible.
What a fantabulous Legends. Burnt to a frazzle and still grinning like a cheshire cat..!!! Cocoa is quite a soporific so I am off to my overdue bed. Good night folks.
Cheers,
Trapper 69

Your bit on the public address came over well Skybolt. Well done.

Moggy

Well there are certainly entrenched views here on both sides. The PFA is my chosen organisation since I operated an aircraft on a PtoF administered by the PFA and I learned to fly, at 1.25 GBP per hour, in a PFA co-ownership group Tiger Moth in 1957.
As I have said before the PFA is run by a small full time staff on both the engineering and admin sides with a democratically elected Executive Committee. The elections for that committee are very shortly to take place so if anyone fancies their chances why not get yourself proposed and seconded and let the process take its course according to the votes you get. Change, and indeed any improvement, that you feel needed can only result from within, not without. No matter what the thread posts may say.
An alternative organisation holding the CAA approvals the PFA has does not exist, though the BMAA does have similar approvals in the case of production microlights and some homebuilt varieties.
My own wish is that aviation folk would realise just what a gem of an organisation the PFA actually is in terms of promoting low cost flying for its members. As things stand, I for one could not do without it.
A great day at Duxford though the weather took a while to clear up. Another tomorrow. Sorry, later today. Back to finishing my cocoa. Good noght folks !
Cheers,
Trapper 69
🙂 🙂 🙂 😉 😉 😉 😎 😎 😎

You are right about the TB20, and there may be some news there in due course. Air Touring have certainly lost the plot there though – they weren’t even invited onto Socata’s stand in Paris.

You just have to look at the enormous numbers of Czech and other Eastern European companies producing microlights and light sports aircraft to see where the new trend is coming from. All substantially unrepresented at FFF, but fully represented at AERO2005.

The PFA Rally in its current format is doomed to wither on the vine, I fear – not least in part because of the defensive attitude displayed by the PFA in the face of overwhelming and consistent criticism.

Trinny, I stand (partially) corrected as I believe if you approach Socata with a big enough bag of wonga, they will knock you out a TB20 but I agree they are not in full production. I’ve been to the last 3 Friedrichshafen shows and have seen it grow year by year. I think the reasons for this are the superb permanent facilities (the Germans do like a Messe (exhibition)) and it’s central European location. There were loads of Czech, Slovak and Slovenian registered a/c in the visitors park and no I’m not a “grubby spotter”. Wycombe 2006 will be interesting.

We aim to entertain, Ozplane!

In fairness, the model aeroplane club of the UK (or some similar name) was present at FFF. They were the only aeroplanes not surrounded by the 5:1 Spotter/Pilot ratio. On each of the occasions I walked past, they were just sat on the grass in front of their models looking a bit sad. Also in fairness, Socata don’t make light aircraft any more – only the TBM700. They don’t even appear at Le Bourget these days other than to sell the TBM, and Air Touring are too busy trying to sell Lancairs to care.

Friedrichshafen is now the show of choice. Everything else in Europe is a poor shadow in comparison. There really was something for everybody there and all of the exhibitors you mention, and many many more were there along with far more serious buyers.

I bet that doesn’t go down well with the PFA either.

Amusing watching the sparring twixt Trinny and Skybolt but to say any criticism should be directed to the PFA is plainly laughable. Their inability to accept any form of comment is legendary, my letters go unheeded. AOPA on the other hand do seem to be making progress off a small base.
As for FFF05 where were Cessna, Cirrus, Piper, Socata and all the other GA manufacturers? Where were the gliders, hang-gliders, parachutists, model aircraft and gliders all of which are on parade at Friedrichshafen? They were promised in the blurb and they didn’t appear. As a fly-in it was fine, as a GA show it was a non-starter and if you don’t believe me Skybolt, have a look at some other forums (fora?)