Flying in Europe

One of the biggest problems with European airspace is that we don’t use the FAA system of making the transition to Flight Levels at 18000′. In Turkey you frequently fly surrounded by 10000′ terrain with a Transition Altitude of 3000′. Daft!

I can’t give any specifics without digging out my charts but I know it’s there out in the plain states and maybe even over the Rockies. The Sectionals only show Class E extending 3 miles either side of the Victor Airways criss-crossing the charts with the Class G running straight up to the 14,500 limit. I guess there isn’t much need for ATC control below that in Western Iowa. 😀

But do you know any class G that does, i dont, but americas a big place

I’m impressed that I remembered that Class G can go as high as 14,500′. Just one more piece of useless information crowding the brain. 🙂

if you want to know exactly what US airspace is about visit

http://www.asy.faa.gov/safety_products/airspacecard.html

these cards are very handy, although the CAA does a good A4 sheet, the FAA’d card idea given to all qualified pilots when they pass would be a good idea.

With that info I can revise my list

ICAO A is most similar to FAA B
ICAO B is most similar to FAA A
ICAO C Doesn’t exist (at least not in the UK!)
ICAO D is most similar to a slightly downdraded FAA A but more than a FAA C
ICAO E is most similar to a slightly downdraded FAA A but more than a FAA C
ICAO F is similar to FAA G except it is outside controlled airspace on specific radar advisory routes.
ICAO G is mostly similar to FAA G.

Here’s a brief discription of the FAA airspace.

Class A: must be on IFR flight plan, always between 18,000 and 60,000, ATC controlled

Class B: large traffic volume airports (ie ORD, JFK, LAX) the surface to 8,000′ to 10,000′ AGL usually. under ATC control

Class C: medium traffic volume airports, surface to 3500′ (I think that’s it) ATC controlled

Class D: low traffic volume airport, small cylinder of airspace around airport. ATC controlled but the rules are lax.

Class E: all other ATC controlled airspace. You don’t have to talk to anyone flying through it but ATC runs traffic throughout it’s boundaries. In the Eastern US it’s found roughly at 1200′ AGL up to Class A airspace at 18,000.

Class G: this is the free for all airspace that is everything else that isn’t one of the above. It isn’t controlled at all. Found at low altitudes but can also go as high as 14,500′ in less populated areas. Lax weather minimum for this airspace, basically scud-running.

If I remember rightly –

ICAO class A is similar to FAA class A.
ICAO class B has no FAA equivalent.
ICAO class C doesn’t exist.
ICAO class D & E is similar to FAA class B.
ICAO has class F & G which I don’t think is designated under FAA.

The specific names might vary but back in 1995-6 the FAA redid the entire US airspace classification/definitions to mirror the ICAO. It seems that how those types of airspace are used also varies but their properties are similar.

Originally posted by Whiskey Delta
…Obviously London’s airports are going to be Class B (I think we both use the same classifications)…

The FAA has (as far as I am aware) the most exemptions filed from ICAO of any aviation authority, including using your own airspace definitions.

Interesting, thanks for the info.

Flying 5-6 times a year in the US and flying in the UK all the time i can tell you its a different ball game, i think the shock for an american will be great just by the fact to minimise accidents we have strict rules!
Radio work is regulated and is standard across the board. There is a good coverage for FIS(flight information Service) Radar Information Service (VFR/IFR) and Radar Advisory service.
No Unicom!

You mentioned airspace this is slightly different not to different but enough. Most major air ports are situated in a Class D set of airspace, minor airfields vary around class E and none.
Heathrow is Class A to the deck (something you dont have anywhere over there) There isnt a huge amount of Class B and i cant think of any Class C, i may be wrong but i dont think there is any class C

Overhead joins are a must no joining the downwind at a 45 as this is dangerous!

Suffice to say, it is different over hear flying isnt a trivial affair – it is still fun, i have flown all around Florida and surrounding areas, Nevada and flown up to Wassington from Florida.

Anything more specific you want to know ill try to help.

That’s the plane. Nice pictures.

Sounds like the same one:
http://futurshox.net/viewer.php3?id=898
http://futurshox.net/viewer.php3?id=899
http://www.f4aviation.co.uk/airshow02/legends/a36a.htm

Sadly the only picture I can find of that particular A-36 in my photo album doesn’t show it’s registration number. It’s painted silver with a yellow spinner and dual black bands with a yellow border around the empenage and both wings. The unit insignia is a boxing black bird.

Until finding this plane I had never seen an A-36 in person. It would be need to see fly.

Originally posted by Whiskey Delta
futurshox: I’m jealous that you got to see the airshow put on by the Lone Star Flight Museum. They have an awesome collection. I saw it for the first time in December of ’01. From what I was told by a gentleman working their nearly all the aircraft are owned by one man, he’s just nice enough to put them on display for us to see.

One aircraft that was on loan when I visited was an A-36 Mustang. Was it still there and did it happen to fly at the airshow? [/B]

No, we didn’t see the A-36. Is that the same one that flew at Legends last year in the UK? Strangely enough, we have seen very few Mustangs in Texas. I’m sure there must be more about, but I don’t know where… We did see ‘Su Su II’, owned and flown by Frank Borman. He is an Apollo 8 astronaut and flew at the Burnet airshow in company with an F-16.

An example from continental Europe (Germany):

Cessna 172 (wet): € 100 per hour (Hobbs-time) on average
Fuel: 1 litre of Avgas 100LL can cost up to € 2
Landing fee: € 5 at a small airfield (up to 2000 kg MTOW), € 20 at a larger (regional) airport (there is no such thing as a free landing anywhere in Germany).

X-countries are rarely a problem airspace-wise, only sometimes in the region of international airports. Largest problem in Germany apart from costs is disappearing airfields, particularly around larger cities. “Noise” is also a problem and virtually all German GA-aircraft have had silencers fitted at great costs (some airfields levy a hefty charge at “noisy” a/c).

Originally posted by Moggy C
the poor sods in the South end up using a LARS, which I think equates in your world to ‘Flight Following’ (Correct me if I’m wrong) a radar derived traffic advisory system.

Sounds to be the same.

Crossing airport zones requires permission which can oft times be refused at the last minute so it is always best to have your alternative route easily to hand.

Sounds like our controllers go to the same school.

French ATC feign polite disinterest in anything with a G prefix.

We have Montreal, the France of the West. They show the same warm welcome to the N prefixes.

Do any of your airline primary training programs take place in the UK or do the outsource all of that to the States? A state a way from me in Michigan, BA does their primary training in Battle Creek, the home of the Kelloggs cereal maker. It’s quite different to hear “Speedbird” being used on the frequency and C172’s flying 747 patterns.

futurshox: I’m jealous that you got to see the airshow put on by the Lone Star Flight Museum. They have an awesome collection. I saw it for the first time in December of ’01. From what I was told by a gentleman working their nearly all the aircraft are owned by one man, he’s just nice enough to put them on display for us to see.

One aircraft that was on loan when I visited was an A-36 Mustang. Was it still there and did it happen to fly at the airshow?

Ooooh!

Don’t you just love that Devil Dog!!!!!

Moggy

I’m in Texas for a few months while my partner works in his company’s Austin office 🙂

I am finding it my pleasant duty to investigate the local aviation activity, of which there is quite a bit at the moment 😀 I think it’ll quieten down in the summer heat though.

pictures of avian activity here