Flying Legends – My thoughts and no photographs!

A correction.

Auster Fan. I have to agree with your view of the airshow. I believe the Mustang pair were both U.S. pilots, relatively unknown in the U.K., although I’m happy to be corrected. For me there were no negatives. It’s an unbeatable show.

The reason ML407 was not there, nor has it ever participated at Flying Legends, is because it is a trianer and there are no trainers at that show. I know of one exception once, but I’ll leave the experts to spot that.

And you are not really in trouble. Good to see you.

Janie,
Just to correct you, Carolyn Grace and ML407 have participated at Flying Legends in the following years – 1996 1997 and 1998.

Ta Ta.

Skybolt – eloquently put. Thank you.

CM

I really cannot weigh up some of those who post here. It is my 50th year as an airshow pilot with over 2,300 public display performances. I have but rarely enjoyed a weekend such as all of us have just had at Duxford despite only piloting my Citroen ZX to and from home.

Sheer utter hedonism, wallowing in nostalgic, historic, almost all military and mainly WW2 aeroplanes. No Harvards or other trainers, no helicopters and no jets. Bliss – for me and so many others who share my taste in aviation. I envied the undoubted skills of all the pilots who flew and have the utmost admiration for the organising team who really laid on an absolute feast for our eyes..

I even got a slot to plug Sally B’s liability insurance problems with Sean Maffett whose commentary along with that of Bernard Chabbert was superb. Not only that but on Sunday afternoon I was highjacked by the BBC Radio Cambridgeshire to assist the reporter in giving a live broadcast on two 15 minutes sessions before and after the London flypast as the aircraft took off and recovered to Duxford. A memorable occasion indeed.

Perhaps for me as one who acts as the Flying Display Director at quite a few shows the most memorable point of both days was at the Sunday briefing. At the end of the main brief the Duxford airfield manager spoke. I will paraphrase his words as I recall them – “Ladies and gentlemen, out there is an enormous stage with a superb blue, white and multi hued sky and land scape. You are the actors on that stage but it is a performance with no stars, only a 100% supporting cast. The aircraft are indeed the stars.” It reinforced the vital need on such occasions for those pilots present to set aside a natural desire to personally shine above others.

There is always the occasional exception. The incomparable Ray Hanna there for Saturday only and that illustrious pair of American Mustang drivers who put shivers down my spine on both days for their sheer unadulterated brilliance. These closely followed by an Anglo French pair of pilots in the Corsairs. Utter magic. Gentlemen all, and Anna, my admiration and thanks for a memorable weekend.

Lastly to my thanks to Stephen Grey whose dreams came true with the Fighter Collection and the concept of Flying Legends as it has matured and grown over the years. Also to Peter Kynsey whose masterful choreography of the aerial ballet was worthy of Nureyev at his very best. On Sunday both of them were indeed “Jokers” wild.

My grateful thanks to all and especially to the vast throng of good natured folk who came in their droves to watch the spectacle. Without you there would be no airshows.

Cheers,

Trapper 69

Could you please give us some hard figures?

No. I wasn’t given them, but I have absolutely no reason to doubt the source.

Insurance is by no means the biggest cost, it was merely an illustration that the costs of putting Legends on consumes the vast bulk of the entrance money.

Can someone who knows this stuff tell me how much it would cost to go to Old Trafford and watch one gang of big girl’s blouses playing football against another gang… etc?

Moggy

I find that a bit hard to believe but nevertheless an interesting statement. Could you please give us some hard figures?

NB. There are more shows in a year. And if insurrance is really the big cost, then perhaps even more shows would be in order?

the money taken doesn’t even cover the insurance bill for the year (correct me if I am wrong).

It doesn’t. So no correction is necessary.

Moggy

When asked about the non appearence of the 2 seat spitfires over the years at Legends the answer was “they are not seen as proper Spitfires…..”. I find this strange as during their single seat wartime careers they all saw combat so I feel that more than qualifies them for a slot – there were more than a couple of aircraft flying about with NO combat history but thats ok apparently.
Furthermore when asked about a formation slot for the four 2 seaters currently available at ANY Duxford show I was told that “there would be no public intrest for such an event…….”
Having said that Im sure they’ll want all 4 at the Sept show even if they wont have them flying as a “four” – we’ll have to see.

Sometimes it’s quite interesting attending an airshow with someone who doesn’t go all that often – they tend to see things that we don’t. Case in point – wandering round the trade stalls on Saturday, we found the Saab B17 stall. Had a nice chat with the chap manning it, bought a book and a few posters, and off we went. We’ve only gone a few yards when Julie turns to me and asks if I noticed how the Saab stall prices were about half what the equivalent products would have been on other stalls. Needless to say, I hadn’t. But it did get me thinking about how overpriced things are here compared to the rest of Europe, and how badly the commercial stall holders seem to rip the airshow-going public off…

I agree Steve Alex and I spent a good half hour with them, the poor buggers – but they were so enthusiastic! Brilliant people – i bought a T-Shirt for £8 and let em keep the change from a tenner – all power to em – they put on a great show…the Cat T-shirts were great too for seven quid – again, cracking job they deserved my support i felt – especially after they supported us at the Sywell show last year (for charity, virtually flew for costs)

Stars were the Hawk and the SAAB for me – i was miffed too at the windbreaks etc -but bums on seats laddie, or stepladders and their dosh, helped to pay for a SAFE , professional show. We are bloody lucky to have this on our doorstep, the Eyetie was bowled over by what we have on our doorstep which reminded me of that – :rolleyes:

Then i took him to Hendon and showed him our two combat vet 109s…. 😉

After he saw 2 lightnings dash about …

The A10 diversion which i fell for partially then cut cross country annoyed me and i think £4 for a flightline walk was a bit naughty (you pays your money etc) but my feeling were numbers were down on the Saturday maybe because of the London thing – certainly security at Hendon was tighter – but at least the FABULOUS Grahame White hangar was open…. 😀

Overall i felt it was value for money tremendously professional, ahem even if i did get thrown out of the Flypast subscribers tent not realising what it was 😮

Nothings gonna be perfect but by god on a good day DX comes damn close…

And the IWM’s cut.

Steve, in Britain people get ripped off everywhere all the time. Know why? Cause they/we allow it to happen. We should open our mouths more often.
£27 entry fee is becoming quite mad and the yearly increase in price is disproportionate. Having said that I don’t feel too bad donating towards warbird restoration. But £27 times several hundreds of thousands of visitors is an awful lot of money.

As I said in another post, the entrance fee I did wonder about. Having said that, I’m sure in discussions about this in the past, someone stated that the money taken doesn’t even cover the insurance bill for the year (corrct me if I am wrong). That’s before we start talking fuel prices…………

All this talk of windbreaks and ladders reminds me why I stopped going to Fighter Meet in the late 80’s.

I think someone has already mentioned that there are asignificant dvantages to the access to the Friends of the Fighter Collection, including the shade of their marquee!

Excellent Weekend with stunning flying and sounds, good to hear Mr Blake as commenator?

I fail to see how DC-3s are justified either

I would have thought the DC3 has as much a right to be at a show entitled flying Legends as any fighter or bomber given their service record, both military and civil.

Tom

We too found the windbreak and stepladder brigades frustrating, especially my 8-year-old son as he couldnt see over the top. We eventually moved our chairs to the back of the crowd and stood on them, which was effective if a little uncomfortable as fold-up chairs arent really meant to be stood on. At least we had a clear conscience about not blocking anyones view.

I think part of the problem is that there are simply an awful lot of people for a fairly limited amount of viewing area once the corporate tents etc are accounted for, and the fact that the ground is flat makes it hard to see over the top. Maybe some temporary grandstands would help, or even some earth banks where there is room.

I also think its an expensive day out, for me, my son, a programme, flightline walk, ice creams and food on the way home it came to over £65 and i’m not sure I’d spend that every year. The last time I went was about 3-4 years ago and I’m sure it was ‘only’ £15 then.

and I don’t see why we should change our habits because of some bunch of cowards.

Amen to that.

Skymonster
thanks for the very fair appraisal of both shows.

Skymonster, that’s a very honest and accurate set of comments you gave there. Totally agree.

Steve, in Britain people get ripped off everywhere all the time. Know why? Cause they/we allow it to happen. We should open our mouths more often.
£27 entry fee is becoming quite mad and the yearly increase in price is disproportionate. Having said that I don’t feel too bad donating towards warbird restoration. But £27 times several hundreds of thousands of visitors is an awful lot of money. One would expect to see an airworthy Stirling by now… 😉
Funny you mentioned the SAAB B17 stand. Prices in Sweden are even sillier than in Britain (I’ve been there recently) and the prices of the B17 stand items were simply very decent. And that’s the way to go, as both parties benefit from it (cheaper buy, more sales).
“Would you like a Duxford program?” – Hell no, they’re way over priced! They could’ve simply incldued that in the £27 couldn’t they. Costs a couple of pence to print one of those! When you buy a car, you don’t need to buy the manual seperately do you? *rants on…* 😀

Anyway…

For me what I am really missing in the British airshow circuit is simulation. Simulated dogfights, simulated attacks. It’s not that hard or expensive or dangerous to do and it would be totally awasome. I hope one day we can have a Kittyhawk dogfighting a Macchi 202 or something 😀
O yes, Kemble had simulation. A Hunter flying past and a guy tossing some purple(!) smoke markers and the commentator saying the target was destroyed. Right. For that entry price they could’ve bought a £200 quid 1980 Land Rover wreck and set it on fire at least!! Too much to ask? :rolleyes:

But for the time being I am totally happy that I/we can enjoy these spectacular flying machines and many thanks to the people who make it possible!

3. Prices – score: Duxford 3, Chino 4

Sometimes it’s quite interesting attending an airshow with someone who doesn’t go all that often – they tend to see things that we don’t. Case in point – wandering round the trade stalls on Saturday, we found the Saab B17 stall. Had a nice chat with the chap manning it, bought a book and a few posters, and off we went. We’ve only gone a few yards when Julie turns to me and asks if I noticed how the Saab stall prices were about half what the equivalent products would have been on other stalls. Needless to say, I hadn’t. But it did get me thinking about how overpriced things are here compared to the rest of Europe, and how badly the commercial stall holders seem to rip the airshow-going public off…

I have nothing against the windbreak crowd, or the stepladder crowd. It is when the windbreak crowd stand all the time, or the stepladders are in front of everyone that I find it inconsiderate (not rude).

The ones that really get me are the “windbreaks on top of stepladder” crowd……..
😀

Thoroughly enjoyed Sunday at the “Legends” – my first Legends show ever. A few thoughts about previously discussed subjects:

* We arrived at the tank bank at around 12:30 having not staked out a position beforehand, two of us with deckchairs. All was fine until some 60+ year old ### (yes, they can be too) parked himself litterally less than six inches directly in front of me and stood for the entire show, totally ruining my view. So I have little sympathy for helping others whoever they may be – next year I’ll set up my stall at the front first thing and ### the rest who arrive late.

* Having worried beforehand, I was surprised that traffic flow was excellent – arrived at 08:45 and had about a two minute wait at the pay booth behind the tank museum before paying and parking. Outbound at about 18:30, I think we waited at the exit about 30 seconds before joining the A505.

Having “done” the Chino, CA “Planes of Fame Air Show 2005” in May this year which it could be argued is the nearest to Legends anywhere, I thought I’d make a few observations by comparison, particularly of issues that were especially noticable to me…

1. Traffic – score: Duxford 1, Chino 1
Both were easy to arrive at and exit despite the large crowds

2. Weather – score: Duxford 2, Chino 2
Was as well tanned after leaving both – for once, Cambridgeshire came close to California!

3. Tents / windbreaks / umbrellas – score: Duxford 3, Chino 3
The US mentality is catching on here but neither is worse than the other

3. Prices – score: Duxford 3, Chino 4
Admission at Chino was $20, Duxford £27 or well over double. Enough said on that! Beer and burgers were $3 at Chino, £3 at Duxford. Same again, and it has to be said the quality was better at Chino too. No extra dollars to walk the flightline at Chino either, which is a £4 extra at Duxford!

5. Aircraft variety – score: Duxford 5, Chino 4
Despite Chino having quantity (e.g. five P-47s in the air together) and some interesting a/c including some from the old country (Spitfires, Hurricane, Sea Fury, Firefly), I think DX has the edge on variety of types given all the unusual types and that its also capable of covering pretty much every type Chino could offer except the Japs. That having been said, Chino offers a few jets (Sabre, MiG15) and I think its a shame Legends excludes things like G-SABR from the show – the concept of flying “legends” has moved on from WWII and I think there should be a space for a few famous old jets at DX

6. Display timing / continuity – score: Duxford 6, Chino 4
Despite both having an ongoing program throughout, I was seriously impressed with Duxford’s ability to run a continuous show with so few pauses. Chino did well despite the mandated pause whilst the airfield reopens for an hour, but wasn’t quite up to the well oiled Duxford machine

7. Display flying – score: Duxford 6, Chino 5
There were some exclent spirited displays at Duxford, especially the TigerCat. But so there was at Chino. None the less, it would be fairly easy to award Duxford this one, except that it was noticable and annoying that far too many flyers concentrated too much on vertical manouvres at Duxford, thus denying the sort of opportunities for a confirmed photographer (me!) that were abundant at Chino. Particularly at fault in this respect, IMHO, was the Saab B-17, the brown Hurricane, and the Curtiss Hawk each of which rarely gave us photographers the chance of a fairly close-in topside view. It can be done as some both at DX and Chino showed, but some of the Duxford flyers just didn’t – shame!

8. Size / balbo – score: Duxford 6, Chino 6
What irritated me was the comentator continually harping on about Duxford Legends being the greatest warbird show in the world, and that it had the largest balbo. Crap! Chino was as big, and the balbo at the end was at least as large if not larger. One thing Chino lacked was the likes of DC-3s, but on the basis of no trainers and no jets at Duxford, I fail to see how DC-3s are justified either.

Overall then an honourable draw – both Chino and Duxford have their merits, and given my experience from a couple of months ago the commentator continually saying that Duxford Legends was the biggest and best was irritating (despite me being from the UK and really hoping we could put one in the eye of the yanks!!!). But the rest of the show was excellent and I plan on being back next year. Until then, I’ve just got the Reno Air Races to go to in September to make my “warbirds” year complete.

Andy

Not usually to phased by the windbreak/tent/stepladder arguments myself, it’s a fact of life with big shows. Must admit I did feel uncomfortable walking through the sea of unattended mini tents on Saturday morning. After this weeks events in London who knows what could be left inside them?