FO HW Gardner: crash of DH10 Martlesham 1921

OK Sabre, NOW I understand !!

You mean the 6 pages I mentioned in the PM I just sent you? Fine!

Yes – hence my comment in post #9 above!

See email I have just sent, including a photo of your man, just in case you don’t have it.

Only one query remains: I doubt he learnt to fly with 98/198 Depot Sqn, and so there would appear to be a bit missing from his record, circa June 1917 to show elementary flight training (on Maurice Farman, Avro 504 or possibly DH.6 – the latter just being introduced at that time).

You mean the 6 pages I mentioned in the PM I just sent you? Fine!

Thanks Sabre. Can I get back to you about his records, as they are not really mine, just “loaned”? I’ll PM you.

Laurence: I also have his records so no worries there. I’ll reply in a bit.

Thanks Sabre. Can I get back to you about his records, as they are not really mine, just “loaned”? I’ll PM you.

12 Training Depot Station (TDS rather than JDS): at that time it was based at Netheravon. TDS were usually formed by combining two TS (Training Squadron), to achieve economies of scale in training.

I’d be happy to translate his RFC record if you need it. Sometimes they can be confusing to the uninitiated!

F/O Gardner was with “12 J.D.S.” in 1918. Anyone know what that was? Thanks.

Sabrejet kindly posted 2 newspaper reports on this crash yesterday. I note that the site was Gull Farm, Hasketon. I wondered if it stills exists, and it indeed does, visible on Google Earth. I wonder if the farmer kept any bits.

Thanks Paul. The one I am looking for is the top right one. It says PTO, in green ink, so I presume the reverse side is the third one down on the right, talking about the spin. Very useful.

Casualty card is online
http://www.rafmuseumstoryvault.org.uk/archive/gardner-h.w.-harold-william

Yes I’d say it’s a DH.10A, with Liberty engines.

There are a lot of Martlesham reports in archives, so I’d say that RAF Museum would be a good start. Ditto The National Archives.

Good example here:

AVIA 6/4229 Ministry of Defence and predecessors: Royal Aircraft Factory, later Royal Aircraft Establishment, later Royal Aerospace Establishment: Reports. SUBJECT: EXPERIMENTAL FLYING. Failure of the starboard engine in flight on D.H.10 aircraft No. E.6042 with twin Liberty … Failure of the starboard engine in flight on D.H.10 aircraft No. E.6042 with twin Liberty engines.

I agree Sabre.
Is my picture of the Mk IIIA with the engines set directly on the lower wing, as opposed to between the wings? If so, maybe that is why it was being tested at AAEE. Would these have been Liberty engines, or Eagles? I’m trying to speculate (if I may) as to why it crashed. Is anything known about the reliability of the DH10 or its engines?

Nice one: I do like the DH.10!

I just stumbled on a photo of the actual F8423 at Martlesham. Must have been just before the crash.

http://www.rcgroups.com/forums/showthread.php?t=175063&page=2

Yes that’s the man. I got copies of 6 pages of his service records and the data match. But what you say definitely links the army and RAF. His record mentions “Can 272242”, so he is in fact your second man.

Indeed: so the final two pages of the six pages in his RFC record are not relevant to your chap.

Sabre
Thanks for the newspaper cuttings. I had seen the second one, but not the first.

Yes that’s the man. I got copies of 6 pages of his service records and the data match. But what you say definitely links the army and RAF. His record mentions “Can 272242”, so he is in fact your second man. I am in touch with a cousin who has just sent me photos of his grave. I did find the Flight reference to his engagement: it seems as if that was just a week before he died!

I’m still looking for details of what happened to the DH10. The crash was very close to Martlesham so was he coming or going, I wonder? I know Martlesham quite well as in 1952 my grandparents lived in the road next to the airfield and I used to sneak through the fence and watch the aeroplanes, until some RAF Police in a Landrover told me firmly to get out quick. Mosquitos, Martinets, an early Canberra and Meteor NF11. Drool.

Couple more bits:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]244119[/ATTACH] [ATTACH=CONFIG]244120[/ATTACH]

I am sure there will also be an accident report at the National Archives, but from experience it will likely be buried in a casualty file and not individually referenced.

Papers are Framlingham Weekly News of 12th March and Western Times (Exeter) of 12th March, respectively.

See also under ‘To be Married’ here:

https://www.flightglobal.com/pdfarchive/view/1921/1921%20-%200161.html?search=Gardner

Looking again, there are indeed two ‘HW Gardner’ airmen (please ignore the link I sent: this man can be discounted as he was discharged an invalid in 1916!): one, a Canadian with s/n 273242 (or 272242?), who was discharged in Canada in December 1918, and not relevant.

‘Your’ man is Harold William Gardner, born 11Jan94, and indeed ex-London Scottish (private, s/n 4413). His RFC record gives ‘MK Crockford’ of Croydon as his sister.

CWGC luckily goes up to 1921 and a search of the CWGC site provides grave and next-of-kin details for the Gardner killed in the DH.10 crash:

[ATTACH=CONFIG]244118[/ATTACH]

This ties your man to the RFC record, and also gives a dob. He’s in the 1911 Census with sister May Kathleen (see above (Crockford is her married name)), and he’s listed as born in (Eanston?) Rd – London (not Canada).

Hope this helps.