Focke-Wulf 190D-13 – Champlin Fighter Museum

New thread required please – your question has nothing whatever to do with the subject of this one, and it is some six years old!

Bruce

MJ772

MJ772 was sold or should I say swapped for a P-51 in early August 2010, As yet I can’t find out who it now belongs to

Yes, Chad,

As you say ‘airworthy’ is a shiftable term for some!

My fingers are crossed too for a change of policy with Yanks. Either way, al least both collections have preserved the a/c in excellent condition, as well as doing some amazing quality restorations over the years – in Yanks’ case, still dong. For which I, for one, thank them.

Cheers

Originally posted by JDK
Hi Chad,
Thanks for the correction / comment. I stand by my statement nonetheless – Neither Yanks nor Chaplin have flown their aircraft, as you say, for at least a decade. That’s ‘not flying’ to me!

I won’t disagree James, and one must wonder just how “airworthy” an airplane is after setting for 10 or 15 years! Gosshawk used to have a board hung on the wall on which they kept record of maintenance and whatnot done to the Champlin aircraft. Some of them did not have any record of even having the prop pulled through in many years! With the collection now being owned by MOF I guess the hope that any of them will fly again is pretty remote. I still have hopes for a change of policy with the Yanks though!

Hi Chad,
Thanks for the correction / comment. I stand by my statement nonetheless – Neither Yanks nor Chaplin have flown their aircraft, as you say, for at least a decade. That’s ‘not flying’ to me!

It’s their a/c so it’s their choice, but ‘airworthy but not flown’ isn’t airworthy to me. I take your point that they may get flown in the future, and I too am not optomistic but hopeful. Apart from the tedious :p Spits and Stangs, there’s some lovely rare birds in the two collections. O-47 anyone?

I’ll be amazed if they aren’t trucked.
Cheers
James

I would have thought truck them – wouldn’t it cost less?

Originally posted by JDK
Adding a 2d.
There are at least two collections of ‘airworthy’ aircraft that never flew. Champlin’s a/c and Yanks at Chino.

Actually, many of the Yanks aircraft have flown as have most of Champlin’s birds at one time or another. I know Yanks has not flown any of their birds for about the last decade or so but prior to that they were flown. Many of Champlin’s birds flew while under previous ownership and most were flown to Arizona from Oklahoma when Champlin started up the Museum, including the Super Corsair. The Spit was damaged during its flight to Arizona but has been flown at least twice since being repaired. Yanks never says that they are not going to fly their birds anymore, only that they don’t currently choose to fly them. I’m not overly optimistic about that changing but you have to hope! I wonder if they will fly them or truck them to the new facility when it opens?

Originally posted by JDK

The Champlin 109E is actually a Buchon with a E nose stuffed on

And a DB605 installed, so it’s more G than E, so, why graft an E nose on………strange:rolleyes:

Cheers Mark,

Thought it was something along those lines.

Steve G,

Front cockpit forward ‘one frame’ about 13 inches. Top and bottom fuel tanks replaced with a purpose built slim unit incorporating the fuselage cross braces to the top engine mount points. Cannon deleted and the vacated space used to house the displaced fuel. Full dual interconnection of controls.

Mark

Adding a 2d.
There are at least two collections of ‘airworthy’ aircraft that never flew. Champlin’s a/c and Yanks at Chino. Both claim (with some justification) that most of their a/c were restored to airworthy condition – but they have never flown any of them. I can see where they are coming from, it’s a free world etc, but it seems strange to me. Preservation over demonstration.

The guys at Shearwater Nova Scotia have a better idea – restore to airworthy, fly it once (point proven, no argument) and then ground it for preservation. Their Swordfish had flown once, and the Firefly will do the same. While keeping their aircraft flying is preffereable to many of us here, they probably can’t afford it. Someone said that they didn’t think this was a good idea, as many items on the Swordfish and Firefly are replaced for flight safety, so the restoration is less original, but, again, it’s another point of view, one I respect.

The Champlin 109E is actually a Buchon with a E nose stuffed on, and cropped wings and tail struts. Bit of a mix, as aft of the firewall, therefore, it’s 109G configuration… So, for instance, it’s got ‘G’ style rads. Pop the Merlin back, paint it blue with Espaniol roundels…
Cheers

Getting slightly off the original topic, but what was done to convert the single seat spit into a two seater? I take it the fuselage wasn’t extended at all, and the front pilot was moved fwd and the rear seat put in behind him to keep the Cof G in the right place. Was there a fuel/oil tank in front of the pilot that had to be removed or shorterned?

Originally posted by Mark12
And even better in Indian or Dutch military markings.

Mark

No doubt Mark. I have a particular affinity for the Dutch markings. Sure would be nice to see this bird passed along to somebody who would operate her.

Originally posted by Chad Veich
I think the airplane would look much better with both cockpits rather than like it is now as the forward cockpit is obviously in the “wrong” position for a single seater.

And even better in Indian or Dutch military markings.

Mark

MJ772 has all of its rear cockpit components installed and I’m pretty sure could be converted back to a dual control machine pretty easily. I think the airplane would look much better with both cockpits rather than like it is now as the forward cockpit is obviously in the “wrong” position for a single seater.

Originally posted by DazDaMan
Notice the Museum of Flight listing has MJ772 down as “restored back to its original single-seat fighter configuration”!!

Well it has the rear cockpit panelled over. It certainly does not have the front cockpit moved back to the original position.

Mark

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“Statistics are like a lampost to a drunken man – more for leaning on than illumination.”

David Brent

Originally posted by Firebird
Don’t forget the Flying A 190 (A? F?) that was recovered from Russia a number of years ago, that is on rebuild to fly.

Flying A sold it some years ago, however I understand the restoration has continued.

Notice the Museum of Flight listing has MJ772 down as “restored back to its original single-seat fighter configuration”!!

I paid a visit to Gosshawk a few months back to see the FW and also some of the other fighters as they were being loaded for shipment to Seattle. I was told that Champlin intends to retain ownership of the 190 although it will go on loan to the MOF when completed. (which was supposed to be early this year) I was also told that Champlin stated the airplane will never fly as long as he owns it. Although touted as “flyable”, the airplane has never really been finished to the point that it could flown if Champlin ever got the whim. The current restoration is supposed to change that and the airplane will truly be in flyable condition. The current restoration also saw the aircrafts original wing returned which had been swapped with the Air Force Museum’s 190D at some point in history. A Gosshawk employee told me the wing was not in nearly as good of shape as the one they took off the airplane! The Buchon was run, along with the 190, a dozen years ago or so but has never been flown to my knowledge. There was also rumour the Spitfire T.9 would be going up for sale as MOF already have one on display. However, there were some questions regarding the legality of a sale as, apparently, when the deal was negotiated for the museum it was with the requirement that the collection remain complete and together. However, as of several months ago the Spitfire was the only airplane remaining in the museum which had not been disassembled for shipment. I will try and get back out their in the next few weeks and get another update. Regards, Chad Veich.

The Champlin Fighter Collection was sold a few years back, lock stock and whotzit to the Seattle Museum of Flight, with the exception of the Dora, and possibly one or two others??

See hear

Also found another link to some more photos of the Dora restoration at Gosshawk.

Dora restoration