Was there any particular reason why no original Fokker Triplanes were preserved after WWI, apart from one in Berlin that later disappeared in WWII?
I mean, being made so famous by Von Richtofen and others, you’d think of any type it would be the highest on the list that museums might want to grab postwar.
On a side note there has been some discussion on my Wings Over New Zealand Forum of a rumour that a Fokker Triplane was brought to new Zealand post-WWI and ended up at the Army camp at Trentham as a training aid. I did some research on this and found that in 1919 while our men were coming back to NZ there was simply oodles of stuff brought back to NZ in terms of war booty, from both the Middle East and Western Front. It all went to Trentham (which is at Wellington) where it was to be catalogued and later some would be dispersed around the country. That included loads of big artillery guns that went to various towns as War Memorials. Even Cambridge where I live had one till WWII when it was disposed of in case the Japs flew over.
Anyway the stuff that stayed at Trentham was put into a museum that the Army established there, which was used from then on as both a training place for new soldiers and also a research and science type facility, apparently. This is all documented. The museum even had a periscope form a German U-Boat that poked through the roof and people could look all around the camp with it.
So the musuem existed for sure, and war booty was definately there for the purposes of training. The guy this rumour came form grew up nextdoor and he described the Triplane to a well respected aviaiton historian. It all seems pretty plausible. He reckoned he watched it being pushed into a hole and crushed at the beginning of WWII. 🙁
And though I found nothing in old newspapers to positively identify the Triplane as coming here I did find a report that stated crates with sets of aircraft wings and an aeroplane’s engine arrived in NZ, several months before the arrival of the Albatross C1 which is the only well known war booty aircraft that came here. So maybe that ship was carrying a dismantled Triplane. If it was, what a shame they buried it, and other German booty.
By: J Boyle - 24th February 2012 at 20:59
A friend is currently building a full-scale Spowith Pup replica with a Le Rhone. I’ll send info and photos to FlyPast when it’s closer to being done (basic structure is done, needs to be fitted and covered. The engine is under test by a specialist in California).
By: Orion - 24th February 2012 at 20:14
There are many different types of Dr1 replica, with varying degrees of accuracy. There have been no running Oberursel engines for many years, so the similar Le Rhone has been used in quite a few replicas. However, The Vintage Aviator in New Zealand are now building new Oberursels.
…
IIRC many of the original Dr1s ran with French and British rotaries because they we thought to be more reliable than the German engine. If my recollection is correct it would be reasonable to have an Allied rotary in a Dr1 replica.
Regards
By: The Blue Max - 24th February 2012 at 19:38
I believe the Ron Sand drawings make a fairly accurate replica. All the airworthy replica DR1 in the UK (about 4 I think) are built from these.
Yes as I said currently four flying in the UK and 3 of those are built to Sands drawings the other to Redfern drawings. All these drawings were developed from the originals and are fairly true to the originals as far as we know, with no surviving original examples its difficult to know. As has allready been said they vary in power plants and some have been fitted with original rotaries. The four in the uk have flat four lycomings in 3 of them and a Warner Scarab in the other. They are all constructed with a steel tube fuselage as per the original but the steel used is of a stronger grade than would have been used originaly. Daz you are correct that Rob lamplough used to own one of the Bitz built Blue Max DR1’s, this is now in France with the Salis collection. And yes you are quite correct the other BM DR1 is now back with Patrick and Lynn Garrison in the USA.
By the way Michael Carlson’s DR1 that was damaged at Duxford last year was built with original spec steel tube, the nose over resulted in the fuselage being twisted beyond repair! Thats why we now use stronger spec steel:D
There is also a fith DR1 being built in the UK and should fly next year.
By: DazDaMan - 24th February 2012 at 18:13
Am I going mad, or did Robs Lamplough have one of the Triplanes used in The Blue Max for years?
I know the other one was recently recovered in the States, along with one of the Darling Lili SE.5a replicas…
By: Bushell - 24th February 2012 at 17:29
I believe the Ron Sand drawings make a fairly accurate replica. All the airworthy replica DR1 in the UK (about 4 I think) are built from these.
By: Mike J - 24th February 2012 at 17:21
There are many different types of Dr1 replica, with varying degrees of accuracy. There have been no running Oberursel engines for many years, so the similar Le Rhone has been used in quite a few replicas. However, The Vintage Aviator in New Zealand are now building new Oberursels.
http://thevintageaviator.co.nz/projects/oberursel-engine/oberursel-ur-ii-rotary-engine-build-history
Most of the replicas flying nowadays are ‘lookalikes’ of varying degrees of accuracy, from modern plans with either flat-4 engines Lycoming with mocked-up rotary cylinders, or Warner radials. Various plan sets are available, from Ron Sands and Walt Redfern in the US, and Achim Engels in Germany. Being homebuilts, some Fokker replicas are very nice indeed, some are not so good.
By: Orion - 24th February 2012 at 15:14
I wonder how accurate these replicas are. Do they have rotary engines and are they made from original drawings using authentic materials?
Regards
By: The Blue Max - 24th February 2012 at 14:57
Sir Peter’s got them all in his private air force. 🙂
Oh no he dosent 😀
4 flying in the UK, all hopefully at Sywell Airshow in August. 🙂
By: Dave Homewood - 24th February 2012 at 09:37
Why remake an old movie when he can live it every day! ;D
By: Robbo - 24th February 2012 at 09:33
……. a Brisfit….!!!
2 Brisfits.
By: DazDaMan - 24th February 2012 at 09:29
Sir Peter’s got them all in his private air force. 🙂
We need to badger him to get on with a remake of Aces High. I mean, he’s got Fokkers, SE.5as, a Brisfit….!!!
By: Dave Homewood - 24th February 2012 at 09:25
Sir Peter’s got them all in his private air force. 🙂
By: J Boyle - 23rd February 2012 at 23:05
Probably more replicas than there ever were real ones!
I was thinking the same thing. Many seemed to be around in the 70s-80s, I haven’t seen one for awhile.
By: DazDaMan - 23rd February 2012 at 22:35
At least we have plenty of replicas
Probably more replicas than there ever were real ones!
By: Dave Homewood - 23rd February 2012 at 22:26
Some remains of Richthofen’s machine are at the Hawkinge museum.
Yes, fabric from the one he died in is also on display at the Aviation Heritage Centre, Omaka, here in New Zealand, along with various uniforms previously owned by Manfred, Luther and their father – and also a WWI uniform previously owned by Goering, and a lot more interesting stuff from WWI.
I just think it seems a little odd that considering even in the Allied countries the ‘Red Baron’ had become a well known figure, almost a folk hero, and his Triplane synonomous with him. You’d think someone might have grabbed one and it ended up in the IWM or Smithsonian, etc. Sad that no-one had the forethought to grab more, or prevent the destruction of those two in Germany and the one in London.
At least we have plenty of replicas, seven flying in NZ plus a static example.
By: Bushell - 23rd February 2012 at 21:25
The 1938 film was called ‘Pour le Merite, Fokker Dr1 582/17 had the registraion D-EFOK.
Dave
The other film was the strangely titled ‘D III 88’.
By: J Boyle - 23rd February 2012 at 18:40
Some remains of Richthofen’s machine are at the Hawkinge museum.
Not many WWI aircraft survive full stop. Their lack of value after the war and (obviously) construction methods didn’t make for long lives.
Add to that the Versailles treaty that pretty much disarmed Germany, and there you have it.
Not that the Dr 1 would have been Germany’s choice (Unlike the D. VII), there was no postwar use allowed.
As famous as the Dr. 1 is, I’d rather have seen a Gotha or “R-bomber” survive. Now that’s a piece of history.
By: |RLWP - 23rd February 2012 at 17:08
From The Aerodrome
The DR.I is in the background of this image of a D.VII in the Agricultural Hall, Islington
MORE: Here is a better image of 144/17:
From a great site for all Triplane fans: http://www.fokkerdr1.com/144_17.htm
Richard
By: G-ASEA - 23rd February 2012 at 17:06
The 1938 film was called ‘Pour le Merite, Fokker Dr1 582/17 had the registraion D-EFOK.
Dave
By: |RLWP - 23rd February 2012 at 17:00
One was of course, and displayed in London during the war. It was destroyed afterwards along with the other exhibits
Richard
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February 23, 2012 at 11:12 am