For Daz, Back in Black!!!

All greek to me!!

But what fantastic stuff,

Great Link’s, everyone, MOST interesting!!

Although I have a copy of the then current log book of TE554/20-57 from 1990, I would still be open to suggestions that it might not actually be TE554.

I suspect Karel Posta’s ‘special’ Spitfire may have played an input in here somewhere. It became 20-58 and would have been the obvious choice for a commander’s aircraft.

A valid point. Take a look at the wingtips on 57 in that last photo I suggested, and compare those with any photo of Black 57 :diablo: . What does it mean? Absolutely nothing, Black 57 is known to have gone through several overhauls in its career and has had its wing replaced. Still, fuel for the fire …

Is this site the Hebrew side of the ‘Wings48’ site?

Oh no, its a site by local aviation enthusiasts, dedicated to Israeli aviation in general. for another gem, scroll down to the bottom of http://www.iafe.net/ma/b-17.htm , for the biggest gallery of Israeli B-17s you’re ever likely to see.

May there be many more. 🙂

Is this site the Hebrew side of the ‘Wings48’ site?

Mark

Amen to that. I have a picture question which I shall PM to you later.

I don’t think this is the Wings48 site in Hebrew. Hopefully Haunted See will be back tomorrow and we can ask. Of course I may not be back because I’ve got a road trip for a couple of days. We’ll see how good the internet connectivity is in Nebraska hotels.

Rob / Kansan

It’s also a privilege to witness Mark12 finding a Spitfire picture he’s never seen before. 😀

Rob / Kansan

May there be many more. 🙂

Is this site the Hebrew side of the ‘Wings48’ site?

Mark

Two links for you Hebrew speakers out there. There rest of you will just have to believe me!

It’s not only plausible, it’s actually a fact. Weizmann’s Black Spit is modelled after the Faid Spit.
( http://www.iaf-museum.org.il/site/museum.asp?pi=14&doc_id=135 )

Israeli spitfires surviving around the world at http://www.iafe.net/ma/spit.htm . Halfway through is Black 57 – check out the bottom photo. It isn’t very good, but it’s not black either.

HS – This is fantastic. I will tell my Father about this – he’ll be interested. I showed him a picture of ES276 (the black Mark V Spitfire) which he didn’t remember – he certainly never flew it. He does have a picture somewhere of his flight/group/intake at Fayid featuring himself and Ezer Weizmann. He said to me when I was a kid they only had one fatality on their specific course. He finished at 73 OTU sometime before VE-Day – not sure when.

Any chance of an English summary of those sites? My Hebrew is very poor. Actually it’s non-existant.

It’s also a privilege to witness Mark12 finding a Spitfire picture he’s never seen before. 😀

Rob / Kansan

It’s not only plausible, it’s actually a fact. Weizmann’s Black Spit is modelled after the Faid Spit.
( http://www.iaf-museum.org.il/site/museum.asp?pi=14&doc_id=135 )
Israeli spitfires surviving around the world at http://www.iafe.net/ma/spit.htm . Halfway through is Black 57 – check out the bottom photo. It isn’t very good, but it’s not black either.

Haunted Sea.

The Hewbrew site. Some familiar c/n’s there. 😉

The shot of 57 on its nose. A new one to me and just splendid. Many thanks.

Although I have a copy of the then current log book of TE554/20-57 from 1990, I would still be open to suggestions that it might not actually be TE554.

I suspect Karel Posta’s ‘special’ Spitfire may have played an input in here somewhere. It became 20-58 and would have been the obvious choice for a commander’s aircraft.

http://www.wings48.com/profile_spit58.shtml

Mark

That’s funny, I seem to recall seeing one somewhere! Can’t think where now, though, and I’m not at home to do some snooping! :confused:

Had a look at what I thought was the pic I had seen – TE554 is there, all right, but in black, where I could have sworn it wasn’t! Oh well! :rolleyes:

Israeli spitfires surviving around the world at http://www.iafe.net/ma/spit.htm . Halfway through is Black 57 – check out the bottom photo. It isn’t very good, but it’s not black either.

Thanks for that link – gotta say the black scheme is one of my favourites among the foreign-marked Spits.

Two links for you Hebrew speakers out there. There rest of you will just have to believe me!

Total speculation but plausible. May have no basis in fact whatever.

It’s not only plausible, it’s actually a fact. Weizmann’s Black Spit is modelled after the Faid Spit.
( http://www.iaf-museum.org.il/site/museum.asp?pi=14&doc_id=135 )

It has struck me as strange that no image of 20-57 has ever surfaced in the pre-black scheme.

Israeli spitfires surviving around the world at http://www.iafe.net/ma/spit.htm . Halfway through is Black 57 – check out the bottom photo. It isn’t very good, but it’s not black either.

Interesting stuff guy’s!

Hello Rob,

I am back.

Yup I think the Israeli Black Spitfire scheme could well have been influenced by the Black Spitfire at Fayid.

I am still not convinced 100% the full facts of the black Spitfire are completely known.

It has struck me as strange that no image of 20-57 has ever surfaced in the pre-black scheme.

Mark

Hi Mark, Thanks for that.

I seem to recall a UK-based Spitfire Historian had a Dickens of a job linking 20-57 with TE554 in the first instance. These things were traded around even more than my old Mark3 Cortina – and my Cortina had a VIN number somewhere. 🙂

I thought I remembered an in-flight picture of an Israeli Spitfire in primer with a 4X-??? civilian registration but it was actually a Mustang. The memory plays tricks.

Rob / Kansan

It has struck me as strange that no image of 20-57 has ever surfaced in the pre-black scheme.

Mark

That’s funny, I seem to recall seeing one somewhere! Can’t think where now, though, and I’m not at home to do some snooping! :confused:

Nice one – But do we know why TE554 was painted in that rather interesting black paint scheme? I’ve got a hypothesis. And what’s more I’ve got a theory. It’s pure supposition, but hey, so many of them are.

I need Mark12’s co-operation with this so if he’s around at some point I’ll ask him.

Rob/Kansan

Hello Rob,

I am back.

Yup I think the Israeli Black Spitfire scheme could well have been influenced by the Black Spitfire at Fayid.

The Czechs had a special aerobatic display Spitfire that was used by a demonstration pilot. It was lightened, had special harness etc etc. It ended up in Israel. I would need to get the books out to identify it. This to me was the most likely machine to be retained by Ezer Weizman, but it apparently went to Burma.

I am still not convinced 100% the full facts of the black Spitfire are completely known.

It has struck me as strange that no image of 20-57 has ever surfaced in the pre-black scheme.

Mark

According to Mark12’s thread, Weizman became C-in-C of the IAF, and had the Spit painted black as his personal machine.

Sounds plausible enough to me – would be good to see what the real reason behind that spectacular scheme is!

Hmm… never really thought about it! :rolleyes:

Mark12’s got a picture of a Mark V from 73 OTU at Fayid 1945-ish which was painted in almost the same scheme (can’t tell if the cheatline was red or silver). [Edit -This is it – http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=53639 ]

There was also a “bubbletop” P-47D which belonged to the CFI at Fayid also in the black / silver scheme (some Japanese kitmakers say the cheatline’s red – this is based on interpretation of a B/W photo) [Edit – this is it http://forum.keypublishing.co.uk/attachment.php?attachmentid=53718]

I dunno if the Spitfire belonged to anyone special (CFI of the spitfire flight or something) but I presume it was painted black for a reason – other than a surplus of black paint. 🙂

Guess who was a pilot at 73 OTU in 1945? Correct, my Dad. Guess who else? Flight Sergeant Ezer Weizman.

I wonder if he (Ezer) remembered the scheme of these two and decided to paint “his” Spitfire in that same special scheme (with local variations).

Total speculation but plausible. May have no basis in fact whatever.

But a nice thought.

Check out the thread that Mark12 started when Ezer Weizman died earlier this year, too.

Rob / Kansan

Hmm… never really thought about it! :rolleyes:

Yep, Israeli AF Spit IX TE554, only flown by Ezer Weizman, however.

Here’s a pic posted recently by Mark12.

Nice one – But do we know why TE554 was painted in that rather interesting black paint scheme? I’ve got a hypothesis. And what’s more I’ve got a theory. It’s pure supposition, but hey, so many of them are.

I need Mark12’s co-operation with this so if he’s around at some point I’ll ask him.

Rob/Kansan

Yep, Israeli AF Spit IX TE554, only flown by Ezer Weizman, however.

Here’s a pic posted recently by Mark12.