LAST EDITED ON 14-Nov-00 AT 07:18 PM (GMT)[p]What do people think about the ‘butchering’ of the former SAF lightnings that were held in Southampton for the ‘B’ movie that went straight to video? It was reported in Flypast and other magazines without any apparent shock or dismay at the desecration of these fantastic machines. I know that there is a healthy population of Lightnings left, but was’nt that once the case for Javelins too? I think that it’s about time that the government brought out legislation in order to save examples of the fantastic machines (products of other industries included) that we once built. It infuriates me that these noble machines met their end in a ‘B’ movie. I would rather it have been at the scrapmans torch.
By: FMK.6JOHN - 8th February 2007 at 16:50
Interestingly the roundels on the Saudi Lightnings where first trial painted on the rear fuselage in place of the tailcode which was moved up onto the root of the tailfin.
It was not to last though and they moved back to the more traditional place on the nose, there was more change (only slight!) to come when the Crown Prince Faisel was displeased with the amount of ‘fronds’ on the palm tree.
These where changed from four to a group of eleven.
Regards,
John.
By: DaveF68 - 7th February 2007 at 21:54
Tell that to MAM as they seem to think they will be struck by a bolt of lightning if they apply this to their Saudi Lighting!!!:eek:
Is this the Uk or Saudi Arabia?
By: ALBERT ROSS - 6th February 2007 at 22:51
they are only tetchy if you use the shahada without permission.take the time to go to the saudi embassy, they are very amenable. If you do them the courtesy of showing them what it is you are doing, they will show an interest.
Tell that to MAM as they seem to think they will be struck by a bolt of lightning if they apply this to their Saudi Lighting!!!:eek:
By: BIGVERN1966 - 6th February 2007 at 11:58
Having real problems kickstarting the brain this morning so I must ask, is the shahada the markings on the tail?.
Regards,
John.
yep green box with the script and Arab sword
The one that I’m doing was in the full markings as painted at BAC before it went to Coltishall to do the initial training of the Saudi pilots (the Norwich F53 does have a representation shahada on the tail, however the script is not that which was on the aircraft when it was in RSAF service).
By: FMK.6JOHN - 6th February 2007 at 10:48
Having real problems kickstarting the brain this morning so I must ask, is the shahada the markings on the tail?.
Regards,
John.
By: mjr - 6th February 2007 at 08:51
Sorry for digging this thread up, but did somebody say they had the stencil data for a Saudi Lightning. I’m after the same to finish the attached profile off (bits that have been done are based on the Lightning at Norwich). Any info would be gratefully received.
Regards BigVern
they are only tetchy if you use the shahada without permission.take the time to go to the saudi embassy, they are very amenable. If you do them the courtesy of showing them what it is you are doing, they will show an interest.
By: ALBERT ROSS - 6th February 2007 at 07:40
So if you wish to apply a Saudi ensign to a retired Lightning I suggest you do so, but in place of the Shahada you apply a single gold plam over two crossed sabers, this is considered to be a civil marking and is used a lot.
So are you saying the Saudi Strikemaster hanging up in the new hangar at Duxford has illegal markings? As long as they are applied correctly, why should anyone object?
By: cypherus - 6th February 2007 at 01:08
This post gave me a moment too kick some life into that old laptop.
The correct translation of the Shadada is as follows:
THERE IS NO GOD BUT ALLAH AND MUHAMMAD IS HIS PROPHET
Originally associated with the Wahhabi reformists in the late 18th century that allowed the current royal family to rise to power in Saudi.
The addition of the sword was made in 1902 and a number of variants of the flag have made breif appearances over the years but the official Saudi flag suprisingly was not recognised untill 1973 when it was adopted with the Shadada and single horizontal sword.
By: cypherus - 6th February 2007 at 00:59
I would be very careful about anything to do with the Saudies, they can be very, VERY, tetchy about things you and I would consider common or garden everyday nonsense, The Suadi Flag or ensign actually comes in a number of forms but the original flag as applied to the Lightnings is reserved as the Royal Suadi ensign and has applied to it the’shahada’ and as such it ‘Cannot’ under Saudi law be flown or displayed by a civilian, a similar row blew up over the world cup footballs which some wag had printed with the Royal ensign complete with Shahada, a Big no no as Muslims rightly complained that this was an insult too thier religious beliefs and the Saudis took offence because it is reseverved for Royal Military use only, So if you wish to apply a Saudi ensign to a retired Lightning I suggest you do so, but in place of the Shahada you apply a single gold plam over two crossed sabers, this is considered to be a civil marking and is used a lot.
By: BIGVERN1966 - 5th February 2007 at 19:32
Saudi Lightning Stencil Data
Sorry for digging this thread up, but did somebody say they had the stencil data for a Saudi Lightning. I’m after the same to finish the attached profile off (bits that have been done are based on the Lightning at Norwich). Any info would be gratefully received.
Regards BigVern
By: mjr - 10th February 2006 at 20:38
whatever
MJR
By: ALBERT ROSS - 10th February 2006 at 20:30
You just answered your own question, non responce from the saudi embassy says it all. We dont make the rules, we just follow em, we enquired, we got an answer. Duxford? who knows, ask them. North Weald? ditto.
MJR
Not at all! No response, indicates they have no feelings either way!!! If they objected, they would say so!!!
By: mjr - 10th February 2006 at 17:39
You just answered your own question, non responce from the saudi embassy says it all. We dont make the rules, we just follow em, we enquired, we got an answer. Duxford? who knows, ask them. North Weald? ditto.
MJR
By: ALBERT ROSS - 10th February 2006 at 15:34
We have made equiries into this issue for 53-671 at Gatwick. The responce we got was. We can go ahead and display in Saudi Colours, but are not allowed to display any markings with religeous content, ie Fin flash is fine but the refrences to the Coran cannot be displayed. Hence We have all the original Saudi Warning markings, and are having all but the Coran refrences on the Fin flash. We are going for best of both worlds, one side Saudi Markings and the other in return flight RAF markings. Saudis have softened a fair bit in recent years on this issue. It was a big no no 5-6 years ago, to display any markings at all.
MJR
Let’s get this quite clear…who do these aircraft now belong to, the Saudis, or privately owned? If the aircraft are not going to fly again, they are privately owned and you should be able to paint whatever you want on them?
The MAM Lightning T.55 has not been painted in RSAF markings recently, but has been like this for about 10 years, but devoid of the Saudi flag on the fin, because I am told the Saudi Embassy will not respond to their request to paint it on. Furthermore, if this is such an issue over the Coran, then how come the IWM Saudi Strikemaster is allowed to retail full Saudi markings at Duxford, whilst there is another airworthy one at North Weald also in full RSAF markings. I haven’t heard any objections over those? 🙁
By: ALBERT ROSS - 10th February 2006 at 15:25
there is a lightning of the saf in the sunderland air museum
in Saudi colours
…with Saudi flag on the tail??? :confused:
By: Swiss Mustangs - 9th February 2006 at 22:47
When the RAF was well stocked with aircraft . . . I bet some of you youngsters can hardly believe such a sight!
Correct – I only saw two Lightnings on display at Neuburg a/Donau somewhen in the late 80’s and I was VERY impressed……
on the other hand I have been fortunate enough to witness Vampires, Venoms and Hunters by the dozens.
Cordially
Martin
By: Papa Lima - 9th February 2006 at 22:16
Abingdon 1968
When the RAF was well stocked with aircraft . . . I bet some of you youngsters can hardly believe such a sight!
By: Peter - 9th February 2006 at 22:10
Nice model well done!
By: robmac - 9th February 2006 at 19:27
Allow me to start the Lightning picture thread 😀 😀
By: mjr - 9th February 2006 at 17:33
Mjr
I have looked through the GA website and I am very impressed with what is being done to 53-671, By the looks of things it is almost a return to flight style restoration, What are the plans for this airframe?.
Regards
John.
Hello john, thanks for the kind comments, much appreciated. Yes 671 is getting the full royal treatment, since the airframe arrived in a thousand bits, we decided from day one that every single component would be inspected and re-furbished where possible. The re-build has been on going since 2001 now, and we are on the home straight, a lot of money as been spent on the old bucket. PM me and I will give you the low down.
We are treating it like a return to flight re-build, since it is easier that way, this way we can guarantee that no compromises are made.
The web pages are 6 months out of date already, current pace of rebuild means its out of date within weeks of re-freshing the pages.
Nice piicie above. 687 is now basking in the saudi sun light.
maybe this is a good excuse for a Lightning piccie thread, there hasnt been one for a while. Not that I am biased. 😀
MJR
http://www.gatwick-aviation-museum.co.uk/lightning/mainsite.htm
Sign In
November 14, 2000 at 7:08 pm